There are just so many arguments for both sides. On one hand, JK is always stressing about DD's mistakes being larger than that of the average man, and on the other, she is always stressing how much DD trusts Snape and how powerful and knowledgeable DD is. I do certainly think that the three most powerful wizards are/were DD, Snape, and Voldemort. I think JK wants the reader to underestimate the power of Snape. I guess our questions will be answere in book 7. As for my opinion, I just don't want DD to be dead (hopefully he is an animagus and is still somehow alive ) and it also seems ashamed that all this time he trusted Snape, and then Snape killed him. I wholeheartedly hope that Snape is not siding with the evil. Possibly DD was going to die already so he told Snape with his mind, remember Snape is a very accomplished Legillimens. This would strengthen Snape's relations with LV and maybe he will turn on him at the end. I dunno.

Ok here is a thought: Dumbledore is constantly stating how much he trusts Snape. After his death, Professor McGonagall says,

I think the "you really need to mean it" stuff about the curses is not necessarily an ironclad rule. Did "Mad-eye" really hate those spiders? I mean, how can you really hate a spider? Harry must have hated Bellatrix and "meant" the curse at least as much as Mad-eye/Crouch hated that spider. I imagine that you could probably perform one of the three curses if you were just able to muster nasty enough feelings. That's my take anyway.

Snape has to be good. I just don't see any way for Harry to do anything in the next book if he's bad. What's Harry going to do, suddenly become as great a wizard as DD and find all the horcruxes on his own? He has to have help, and Snape is the only person who can help him. It's not like Ron or Hermione or McGonagall or Mad-eye or Lupin or Slugworth or anybody but Snape has any idea , or means of obtaining, information about the horcruxes. Snape has to be good. Whether he wants to or not, he has to help Harry because Harry is the only one who can get rid of Voldemort. So unless Voldemort kills Harry in the last book, Snape has to be good.

Can anybody give a suggestion as to how Harry is going to destroy Voldemort without Snape's help?

i like all your theorys. but heres mine after bellatrix and narcissa go to snapes to ask for his help and the unbreakable vow is made i think snape tells dumbledore about the vow and malfoy and dumbledore tells snape that he is going to have to kill him so he doesnt break the vow and die.i dont think leglimency or occulemency had anything to do with it.

Snap killed Dumbledore!
How can he be loyal to him when he killed him?
Ofcurse he is loyal to You-know-who

It is still a bit of a mystery to me which side Snape is loyal to. I am tending to sway to him being loyal to Voldemort because it seems a bit odd to me to see Dumbledore on the tower with all the death eaters and then see Snape allied with them and seem shocked. After all he said Severus.......please. And that too seems a little odd to me why would Dumbledore who always says he is not afraid of death begging for life.

Or so it seems he was begging for life he could have been begging Severus to keep a promise to kill Dumbledore. Which would mean in a way he was loyal to Dumbledore.

And i like the mind talking to each other while with all the death eaters. So as you see i have made points for both sides so once again i'm undecided.

I agree with you 'jamorg' I can't decide what side I am on. Yes, it does seem weird that Dumbledore was saying 'Severus...please', when Dumbledore isn't meant to be scared of death, maybe he wanted to stay alive so he could help Harry with finding the horcruxes. But then he could of been begging Snape to keep his promise. I think there is stil a lot more that we will hopefully find out in book seven, about Snape and Dumbledore's realationship.

Yeah, I have to agree with you - that Dumbledore was dying. The thing is he asked for Snape - not Slughorn, who was also a Potions Master - but Snape and Snape only. It was screamingly obvious to me that something deeper was going on, something that only Snape could know about.

One other thing that struck me though as I was reading OotP last night - the Order knew that Voldemort was after the Prophecy. How else could they possibly know about that if Snape hadn't told them? He's the only one who could have - yet why would he, if he was truly loyal to Voldemort? He could have lied to Dumbledore...said that Voldemort didn't trust him enough yet. Or he could have fed misinformation - that Voldemort was after something else. If anything had gone wrong later, he could simply have claimed that he didn't know and that LV obviously didn't trust him enough. He's done so much to help the Order in that respect, but what has he done to make it difficult for them? Nothing. What has he done to help Voldemort? Again, nothing...he can't tell them the location of the Order, we only have his word for it that he helped in the murder of Emmeline Vance and we don't know the full circumstances of that.

Why would he have told the Order, forewarned them, that LV was after the Prophecy? Moreover, if he was really weakening Harry's mind to make it easier for LV to get in there to manipulate him, wasn't he taking a huge risk that Harry would guess what LV was up to and tell Dumbledore? Yes, we all know he was banking on his 'playing the hero', but doesn't that still seem like such a huge risk to take?

It makes more sense that he really was trying to teach Harry Occlumancy, but his own hatred and loathing was something that he just couldn't overcome and in that respect, Dumbledore was wrong to ask him to help Harry and even Dumbledore admits that. But even through all that, he still trusts Snape.

It could very well be because he made an Unbreakable Vow too, but personally, I'd rather it be for an emotional reason...something that would enhance character rather than being a magical chain restricting his actions, you know?

I just don't understand why Snape would have told the Order about the Prophecy, knowing what we know now that it was him who overheard it in the first place, when he could just as easily have lied.

Yes, you could argue that Dumbledore would have known he was lying, but you can't argue that without negating your own arguments - if Snape is capable of hiding things from Dumbledore without him knowing, then he could very easily have lied about the Prophecy and why Voldemort was after it. But he didn't.

I still trust Severus Snape.

Yeah, I agree! He has helped the Order much more! I also think that it was an emotional thing. Him making the Vow was just a deciding factor - I personally think that if it hadn't been for the Vow, Snape would never have agreed to kill Dumbledore. Jo uses magic in many instances to symbolise real emotions and stuff, so the Unbreakable Vow is just a physical extension of one's 'word of honour'.

Snape had made a promise and he had to honour it, no matter what. If one assumes that what he didn't want Dumbledore to 'take for granted' was killing him, the Vow forced them both to decide who should survive. To me, that is the Vow's significance - it forced the choice. I believe that both wizards were prepared to die so the other could live, and that Dumbledore just won that particular 'battle'. He honestly believed that Snape would be of more use to Harry and the Order...

Severus needs to see a phycologist.. x

MOD EDIT : Hiya and welcome to the forums! Could I ask you to please have a quick look at the rules? I'm afraid that one liners aren't allowed here. Any questions, feel free to contact me.

The truth is I'm not sure.But somehow I think he's on Dumbeldore's side. What made me think that, is that by the time I read the book a second time, I realized that Snape might just be with the good guys. Hagrid told Harry that he overheard Dumbeldore and Snape argueing. Dumbeldore said to Snape that he has given him his word. Well, what if that word was to kill Dumbeldore? This might be the only way to help Harry. How? I will tell you. When Voldemort knows that Snape killed Dumbeldore, he will make Snape his most loyal Death Eater. Snape will be near Voldemort all the time. He might listen to what Voldemort has to say about his plans. Snape then will pass that information to Harry. That information might help Harry in any way possible. That's what I think will happen. Of course Harry will have a hard time trusting Snape after what he did to Dumbeldore.

I'll come again with my felix felicis theory, but I'll had an important part.

So you know that Ginny and Hermione took FF before Harry went with Dumby. You also know they let Snape pass and everything like this, you certainly all read that before.

But, you also told me FF is only for us and It is only for US, our GOOD. And you are all right! Yes, of course you are, because you answered, but not with the intention too. You discover something of really interesting.

When Harry took the FF, he went to see Hagrid, right? But when did he did this, on the morning? the afternoon? No, it was on the evening. And what did the student had to do? They had to be in their house room before the evening. Harry did not care of the consequences, did he? He knew that even if he would get catch, everythink would go all right.

It's the same for Ginny and Hermione. You tell me, how can it be good to let Snape pass? The answer is as easy as 1+1. When Snape would kill DD, Snape would now be the perfect spy... for DD. Good spy, good informations, no Voldemort in less time, good for Hermione, a mudblood, and Ginny, a blood betrayer.

That's an interesting point, Rogue, but unfortunately, I think that the Snape haters would probably say that Felix worked out in their favour by keeping them safe - by allowing Snape to pass, they didn't risk him killing them.

You know, there are an awful lot of people here voting for Snape's guilt, but they never post...why is that? Aren't they sure? Not confident enough in their convictions to have a debate about it? The majority who post are Snape supporters, and yet the poll shows that opinion is very much divided...

Come on out, you cowards!! Let's have a debate here!!

Check out mugglenet's editorial "Machiavelli's Half-Blood Prince". Whether you want to believe Snape is good or evil, it is a very interesting new read...

Snape is loyal to Dumbledore. I'm sorry if this has been mentioned but just before Snape hit DD with the AK curse DD was saying to Snape, " Please Severus, please" Now this could be interprated as DD pleading with Snape to let him live. However i beieve that DD and Snape had previously agreed that the best way to let Harry continue his quest was being almost entirely on his own(e.g no DD). DD was therefore pleading with Snape to carry out their plan to kill him. Snape would then be rewarded by Voldemort and he would be in a perfect position to pass info onto Harry.Snape has always been portrayed as "evil" but i think that it's wrong to judge him as evil, just yet anyway.

This is straying from the point slightly but in an interview JK says that in the 3rd film director Alfonso Cuaron put scenes in the film that "foreshadowed" later events in books 6 and 7. One theory i have come up with that in the book Snape is unconcious until after Harry fights off the Dementors that are trying to suck out Sirius's soul. In the film you'll notice that Snape recovers and just as the Werewolf-Lupin is about to attack Harry Ron and Hermione, Snape jumps in front of them and protects them! Could this show that Snape has really been trying to protect and help Harry all along??

In every book, Harry see's something during all the story, but only know what it really mean, or what is the use for the object.

PS/SS
The Erised Mirror
Harry see his family, Dumbledore explain to him, Harry find the Philopher/Sorcerer Stone, in the mirror, bam, it's usefull for Harry

CoS
The Diary
Harry talk with Tom Marvolo Riddle without knowing him. We see that the diary was the memory of Voldemort, a horcrux, bam, it's usefull for Harry, one horcrux of destroy

PoA
Well, the thing of Hermione (Retourneur de temps in french) help saving Sirius, Bam it's usefull for Harry


GoF
Portus
This neither, I don't know how to say it in english but, when they go to the WQC, they use a portus, at the end, BAM, Harry use a portus to go see Voldemort, bam it's usefull for Harry (he know Voldemort back)

OotP
The big black beast
They talk all book long of this beast, and Bam, it's usefull for Harry

HbP
The non-prononciate spell (I don't know neither)
Snape cast a green spell, a Levicorpus, by non-prononciate in his head, saying AK, just a fraction of second before.
To support this.
For a fraction of second, Dumbledore was hanging above the tower (or something like this)
Don't forget the fraction of second in this sentence
When Snape ask the student what is the advantage of non-prononciate a spell. Remember what Hermione said:
It gives us a FRACTION OF SECOND more to surprise our foe (approximately)

Have any of you noticed that a chapter in every book is donated to Snape?
Except Half-Blood Prince, because the whole book was donated to him.

I think Snape is totally loyal to Dumbledore. He didn´t kill him. I´m sure that Dumbledore is alive, too.

I think Dumbledore knows something about Snape that anyone else knows. Thats why he completelly trusted him. I think that Dumbledore is still alive because the Aveda Kedavra doesnt push you away from the window just kills you in the place you are. In addition, Snape could have told the Aveda Kedavra but said another thing in his mind.
Anyway, I think that Snape have secrets with Dumbledore (that all this murder thing has been planned) and we will know them in the 7th book.

This is my theory about snape. I have also tried to post it on the Veritaserum book 7 theories.

Snape is Innocent he is betraying Voldemort and this is why

As we have learned from the books that whether you believe it or not, Snape used to be a death eater but turned a devoted spy against voldemort for the Order of the Phoenix. Snape was just an innocent man working for the order of the phoenix bound by one thing. HIS WORD.
Where I am going with this is a theory based off of something that has already happened in the story. I Quote from Chapter 25 of The Half-Blood Prince.
"I take you with me on one condition: that you obey any command I might give you at once, and without question."
"Of course"
"Be sure to understand me, Harry. I mean that you must follow such orders as 'run,' 'hide,' or 'go back.' Do I have your word?"
"I-yes, of course."
"If I tell you to hide, you will do so?"
"Yes."
"If I tell you to flee, you will obey?"
"Yes."
"If I tell you to leave and save yourself, you will do as I tell you?"
"I-"
"Harry?"
They looked at each other for a moment.
"Yes sir."

My point is that Dumbledore made Severus give him his word, That he will remain completely devoted to the order, and he would make sure that nothing would happen to reveal to Voldemort that Snape is a traitor. Even if it met that he was in a position where he would have to take Dumbledore's life or let the Death Eaters take Dumbledore's life. What ever the circumstances he was not to reveal who he really was playing for.
If you do recall in chapter 27 when Dumbledore is cornered on the Lightning Struck Tower, Draco is unable to perform the deed required of him. The others tell him to do it or let one of them do it for him. Now Snape is in a position that he cannot get out of without revealing his true intentions. Dumbledore looks at Snape and says.
"Serverus...please..." this is basically saying. "Severus, please remember your promise, we have gotten this far, you can't reveal yourself, you must do what you have to do.
In other words, murder Dumbledore.

Also another twist on this is that Dumbledore might have created a Horcurxe upon learning about them, and Snape knew about this Horcruxe so murduring Dumbledore would have no effect except making The Dark Lord believe that he is dead.

Other Supporting evidence is the beginning of the book when Snape comes up with the perfect excuse for everything he did not do that could have helped Voldemort. Such as all the opportunities he had to kill Harry. And when he prevented Quirrel from getting the Stone.

I think that Snape is loyal to Dumbledore. Since in books 5&6, it said that Snape was so good at the non-verbal spells. He could have just said the incantation for the killing curse and said a quick, non-verbal spell that knocked Dumbledore over the side, and Dumbledore being the greatest wizard of all time, slowed himself down with the same spell he used to save Harry in the 3rd book.

I think that one important thing to remember when questioning Snape's loyalty is that although DD. may be trusting and believe in second chances, he's not an idiot. He must know more than he has let on about the reasons for Snapes convertion to the good side. I think that it would be difficult to trick either Voldemort or DD. , I think DD. would be harder to fool than Voldemort--because DD. is wise, where as Voldemort is arrogant and often short sighted.

Soon, we will all have to make a choice, between what is right, and what is easy. Don't forget Harry, you're not alone, you have your friends.

What an important thing being said by Dumbledore. This happen in book 6, but we must ask to who. I know that still's bring the question who's snape really betraying.

For the between what is right, you're not alone, you have your friends:
Dumbledore, completing Snape proving loyalty to Voldemort, to continu spying. Harry will feel alone for a moment, but he have his friends.

For what is easy:
You probably guessed Snape killing Dumbledore.

But, Dumbledore told a lot of thing since he went to Hogwart, and it seem like he knew long time ago that soon, he will have to make a choice, between what is right, and what is easy.

Even if Dumbledore did the good choice, the question is still, did Snape do the easy, or the good choice...

Although I voted for "Himself" I still like to think Snape is
good. He is a very complex charecter and not easily labeled
as good or evil. He is obviously a very convincing actor, no
matter which side he truely serves, so it is hard to be certain.
Hopefully in the end, we will discover Snape really is good and
all his seemingly terrible deeds were all part of Dumbledore's
plan.

I voted for 'Still Undecided'. I voted for this not because I, personally, am undecided, but father because I believe that Severus Snape, hinself, is undecided. It seems to me that he changes to whom he is loyal to often in the series.

~Prod

i also think DD asked snape to kill him, and he knows something about snape, we don't, that's why he trusts him. But i also think DD didn't expect the DE to come when they came... i think he thought he could explain more important things to harry, he wanted to destroy the (fake) horcrux and i think he didn't really expect to die when he did... so he was a bit undecided when he pleaded to snape...he had much to tell harry but he was weak and knew he would die, he also wanted snape to do it, but he knew snape didn't want to and he hoped snape wouldn't be annoyed because he had to do it... that's why DD said 'please, severus...' and snape had a look of hatred on his face because he thought something like 'always it's me who has to do the bad things. they all will hate me but i'm doing what DD wants me to do. why do I have to do it? why me, DD?'
so i think snape is good, but we will have to wait some time to be sure...

The scene where Dumbledore pleads with Snape seems to me to be incredibly fake. He is very uncharacteristic, I mean, and he's always seemed to remain calm. It's just so unreal, and it would be so like Rowling to be a bit deceptive. I could just be hoping Snape's not really bad, but perhaps he's on no side and just wants a normal life. Isn't that what most people want?

Hey guys i just read the topic.

Without meaning to offend anybody, but i cant believe that you people are actually defending Snape. I am personally convinced that he is on Voldemorts side.

I mean... come on! He killed Dumbledore!

Dumbledore= dead Snape= mean person

I am saying all this in the coolest way, of course.

hey yall

personally i am with the side of snape being good, but who really knows??

I think that the pleading done by dd is very uncharacteristic also, but it could be real, in the fact that dd has never been in a lifethreatening situation before, every wizard he has fought- he had an unfair advantage being his power, but he was wandless, weak, and for once wrong, he very well could have been pleading with snape, saying please dont prove my trust false, i mean he may have truly been begging snape to show dd that he was right in his trust because if he wastn then the whole world becomes a diaster... which it will.

peace

I truly believe that Snape is betraying Voldemort. I know that Dumbledore has said that he makes mistakes, but he isnt stupid. He wouldnt have been completely fooled by Snape. I refuse to believe it.
Throughout the entire series, DD has always said "I trust Severus completely" or something of that sort. And its been repeated quite a few times, whenever Harry would question him about it. I definately believe that we will find out something about Snape in book 7 that will completely stun us all. We will have proof of his innocense.

Now, I know I might be completely wrong. And there are many arguments against what I believe. But I have always held onto the hope that Snape is a good guy. I wont believe anything else until the last book.

I agree with you 'accio_amanda', I think Snape is betraying Voldemort too. Despite all the evidence, that basically says he is betraying Voldemort I think DD wouldn't be that stupid, even thugh he is avery trusting person.

hey guys

i think that there is evidence for both sides of the coin, i mean its just in what evidence you put the most weight, i think that treawalneys words on page 195 in HBP (i beleive) is important, i believe it is one way that jk is telling us about snapes loyalties, i wont post it now, but if youd like me too i will.

oh and just wondering who out there thinks snape is betraying dd?

peace

Yes, I agree with 'hp6' it has been a while since we have heard from someone who thinks Snape is betraying Dumbledore. You, might be able to persuade me to change sides!

Wow i feel so out of place. Am i the only one who believes Snape betrayed Dumbledore??
Anyway, i guess i should tell you why i think so. Warn you, this is gonna take some time.

Ok. First of all, Snape is a great occlumens. He could have fooled on DD any time he wanned. And i know that DD actually trusted Severus a lot, but my bet is that so did Voldemort. And LV is said to be the greatest occlumens of all (and i am not saying that DD was stupid and easily fooled nor anything)
I also think that Snape (about whom we dont know much, though) felt like he belonged with LV. Felt a lot more accepted and happier. I mean lets accept this: being with DD he only had DDs trust. Nothing else. He didnt even have the job he wanned. He wasnt happy, i think.
And you´d better consider this: in book6, DD finally gives Snape the DADA post. Why would he do that? Cuz the moment couldnt be worse, i think. I believe that DD felt afraid of Snape betraying him. Well not exactly afraid, what i mean is that the idea definitly crossed through his mind (despite of all the trust he said to have on him).
And so i say that maybe he gave him the job as a sign of trust on him. To try and make him happier somehow, you know. The book itself said that DD believed the post may "push him back to his old habits". Then why on earth would he give it to him right now?
(and its not just because he needed a new teacher: he could put anyone from the Order if he really needed to).

Thats one thing.

I also think i have read sth about DD having planned his death. Now, not meaning to offend nobody nor anything, but i think thats ridiculous. Why on earth would he do that?? I mean come on, he is not a suicide. Besides, choose to die just like that when things are already so complicated... i just dont accept it. And he already had the locket, so it wasnt some kindof plan for Snape to get the horcrux either (and by this i´m saying i absolutely disagree with Snape being RAB).
I just think this is so not Dumbledore´s.

And if you believe that DD is still somehow alive... well i neither think so. After all, he was touched with the AK. He cant have survived that. And besides we had Fawkes lament and the his funeral and everything... i just dont see it was all fake.

And one of my main (but based on no facts... mere suppose) is that: "maybe LV was in possesion of the locket horcrux. And maybe DD, in his holy trust to Snape, had confided him about his horcruxes theory, being Snape supposed to help him get them.
Then Snape, under LVs orders, tells DD to go after the horcrux in the cave, knowing that LV already had that horcrux and therefor there was nothing (or a fake one) in the cave.

Poor innocent DD listens to him and goes, only to weak himself while Hogwarts was taken over.
He then goes to the tower (weak to death) and... well we already know the rest. Bam bam and Snape kills DD."

(i wrote this theory on the RAB topic... there i explain why i think that LV might be in possesion of the locket).

Ok, and for now nothing else comes to my mind... if i think of anything else i shall write it down, promise.

Dont be mad at me!! I would certainly wish that Snape were innocent...but what can i do. This is the way things are to me right now.

MOD EDIT: Hello. Next time, please use the edit button if you wish to add more t your post. I deleted your second post and pasted it here.

Oh and yes i forgot to say about the Unbreakable Wow with Narcissa.
To me, Snape is definitly the bad guy. Hate him.