I hope that helps, you guys. I do hope that Ron and Hermione will open up a bit more in book seven; they really need to hook up. That interview really made me laugh -- the whole thing, that is -- JKR is funny.

I'll post more later on Harry and Ginny. Right now I need to do some research!

Amanda

Actually, I haven't. I guess I don't look around enough or something... . I always see people referring to those two interviews in particular and I'm like.....okay, I'll just talk about something else for the time being...

I always thought Ginny would be fine for Harry. It wasn't until the fifth book though that I had ever had a thought of them actually getting together. I just thought Ginny was going to like him and then go on with her business. But it turned out she had just lost hopse, but still liked him. And then it got all romantic and happy and blahdee blah and you know the story. I've always liked Ginny as a person. She's like me some of the time. I guess that's why I could relate. . But I think that their two personalities go well together. They aren't too dependant on each other, so they can actually breathe. (Unlike Ron and Lavender, who literally, couldn't breathe ) Why don't people like Ginny? Can anyone who doesn't please tell me why you don't really care for her?

Yipee! Straight from the horse's mouth. Hehehe.

JtD, Droobles, Droob, doesn't matter to me. Either way, I'll know you're talking to me.

Yeah, I started noticing Ginny really coming forward in book five and I really liked her that way a lot more than I liked her just staring at Harry and dipping her arm into the butter and what not. Oh, and that monster, that had to be the cheesiest, most silly thing I've ever read. Not that I didn't enjoy it all, but when you think about it, it's really cheesy.

Hey thanks for that interview. Wow, I'm surprised at how much thought just went into a relationship! Think about how much time she must put in to some of the other more important plots! Geez, I wish I could write like that. I think that interview tells a lot about what is in store for the two, and a lot about how they came to be. I just wish we would've gotten more moments between the two in the last book so we could've seen how they were really working out. I'm counting on those in book seven. Which is growing larger and larger! Can't wait!!

That's true in a way, but iits funny you say that because I'm sure you know a lot of people think that about Hermione and Harry. They are so close but to me it is more of a best friends thing. I wouldn't say family necessarily, but they are really good friends and I just don't really see them as boyfriend/girlfriend as you don't see Harrry and Ginny like that.

Actually, my mind is pretty much made up, but I still have doubts on a few things, you know? I would prefer Ginny and Harry, no doubt, and obviously I like Ron and Hermione. Wouldn't you think Ron's jealousy that you mentioned was steamed by his liking for her? I think if he likes someone he's not going to be to happy that the person is going out with someone other than him. But that's sort of his fault since he waited around. But then he found dear Lavender...

And do you really think Ron has gone through that much pain in his life? His family is still in tact, and he's got nothing too traumatic. Luna has seen a death, and she's just weird. Does she like Ron? Or does she just googly eye everyone because that's the normal look on her face? And Cho....I could never see her with Ron. That's totally weird. And plus, he would be dating Harry's ex-girlfriend, and that doesn't always go down too well sometimes...

Can I ask you when you first started thinking it was Harry/Hermione?

Ah Louise! You've almost convinced me to dedicate my shipping to Harry/Luna!

I've been working on a looooong analysis of Harry/Ginny-Ron/Hermione vs Harry/Hermione and I'm afraid that it's not quite ready for posting yet. But I wanted to come in and add a couple of thoughts.

I'm very much of the belief that a lot of people ship the way they do because of outside the books sources. Now this is where Canon becomes confusing, becausing a lot of people seem to refer to the movies as 'Canon', but those events don't happen in the books (or not like that exactly). Then people read a ship fanfic, or an outside source (aka, Interview with JKR) and decide that characters are particular traits or that relationships are/aren't meant to be.

I'm another who would rather see Harry with Hermione than Ginny. (Louise are you SURE that we can't have the Ginny debate in the Great Hall? ). However I'd also rather see Ron with Hermione over anyone else. I saw it as being logical that these four would end up being couples, as they've been the consistant group of 4 (slowly adding Neville, Luna etc) and Ron sure as heck can't end up with Ginny.

Hmmm.... You have a point there, mate. Ginny doesn't know anything about the horcruxes. I don't think she knows about the prophecy, either (or at least the whole thing and what it means). She isn't a first year anymore, that's for sure. I don't think Harry is going to tell her, for her own protection. Ginny is stubborn enough to do something stupid, like follow him when he goes to Godric's Hollow or Horcrux-Hunting. I don't think she's going to let him go that easy!

Did I say that we couldn't? 'Cos if I did, I was only joking You guys want a Ginny bashing *ahem* discussion thread, then I'm sure that can be arranged

Terran, I agree with almost everything you said, particularly this bit...

I have no doubt that, unfortunately, HMS Pumpkin Pie has been sunk. When you hear it from JKR herself, I don't think anyone can logically deny it. That being said, we are perfectly within out rights - and, as Terran has shown - to point out that literary-wise, the R/Hr ship is very poor. I would equate it to the shallowness (at least on one parties part) of the relationship between Willoughby and Marian in 'Sense and Sensibility'. Marian very quickly came to realise that love, real love, is quiet and unassuming and comes most often when you least expect it, born of friendship, respect and understanding - everything that Colonel Brandon gave her and Willoughby couldn't possibly understand. What makes a relationship last is far deeper than physical attraction, lust, circumstance or ideal - people are who they are and you either take them as they are or you leave them. 'Love is not love which alters when it alteration finds', or words to that effect, as Shakespeare said.

I've always been left far more affected by the type of relationship that existed between Marianne and Brandon, or Darcy and Elizabeth for example, than the type of rip-your-clothes-off "I hate you-I love you" lust that goes on in books and films. There's a huge difference between the two - one lasts, the other one doesn't. Even if R/Hr did stay together, they'd get on each other's wick pretty soon.

Now Harry and Luna - there's a sweet ship if ever I saw one. I really thought that's the way JKR was heading for a while in HBP and I was delighted...even though it was at the cost of my usual H/Hr ship. I accepted R/Hr, even though I didn't like it, because at the end of the day, it was really Harry's happiness that I cared about the most. As an alternative to Hermione, Luna certainly brought something out in Harry that was far more Austen-like than the absolute bunkum Ginny's brought out in him, which has brought Harry down quite a few pegs in my estimation.

On the contrary, I believe H/Hr is FAR from being sunk. Check out the article by John Granger posted above and see why. The seventh book has not been released yet.

It’s not over.

We realize this, and I believe it was covered in the previous posts. The difference is that H/Hr’s arguments are “constructive”, not “destructive” toward each other. Their arguments are settled smoothly, do not last nearly as long, and generally tend to help the other, not belittle them. This suggests that they see each other’s sides more easily than R/Hr do, which in turn suggests more understanding.

This is from portkey.com:

The Tale of the HMS Pumpkin Pie

Once upon a time, there was a writer and H/H shipper named Cassandra Claire. She was in the middle of writing the fourth chapter of a story called Draco Veritas. And, being the good, H/H shipper she is, decided to post a snippet of an H/H snog on to this board. Her snog was angsty and steamy and made many of us blush.

It also kicked our muses into high gear. A call was heard all 'round the great ship H/H (as it was then known) for snoglets of any type involving our two heroes.

Many people posted and there was one (by Narri) in which our hero, Harry, coming from a feast, tasted like pumpkin pie. No one is sure why this particular tidbit or turn of phrase caught on, but it did, sweeping through the ship like pink-eye in an elementary school.

Many, *many,* of the snoglets that followed described Harry as tasting like pumpkin pie. There were even whole ficlets built around our two heroes and pumpkin pie.

In short, pumpkin pie became our unofficial mascot, until one day, after many snogs and ficlets, someone said, "Let us forthwith be called the HMS Pumpkin Pie."

And, that, my friends, is the story of the great ship, HMS Pumpkin Pie.

That's actually really funny. Thanks for that though. Now I won't feel stupid when people mention that. But I have actullay forgotten the basis behind the "Believe in Tress" (which led to Saws) and that's a little sad considering I think it has to do with R/Hr and that's my ship...

I see your point on the fights. But I would like to point out the fight they had when Hermione caused Harry's broom to get taken away. He didn't talk to her for a very long time. Course she was hurt by Ron and Harry at that point (because of Scabbers and the broom) so she was pretty distraught as well. But that fight did last a long while. And if I recall right, it was Ron who stood up and said he would help Hermione with Hagrid's case, which ended the fight. Harry didn't step up, but that also ended their little quarrel. Mind, Ron and Hermione are a bit more...harsh...at some times...Course Harry sort of lashed out at everyone in the 5th book...and now I'm just rambling...

Ah, yes, but one must take into account the entire situation. Sirius Black, a convicted murderer apparently with every reason to harm Harry, was on the loose. The package the broom came in was unmarked. Harry was well known by this time by pretty much all of the wizarding world as an exceptional Seeker that loved Quidditch. Hermione was right to be suspicious when the broom came up so soon after Harry’s old one was destroyed. She worried for his safety. Quidditch was the one thing, in Harry’s mind, that he was good at and enjoyed. Taking this broom from him was like taking a part of himself away, therefore devastating. The situation was so complicated that an argument was inevitable. It was also the largest one between them in the series, but again, it was constructive. When it was over, Harry realized and admitted that Hermione was only looking out for him, and it strengthened their friendship, ending on a positive note.

Further illustrating the arguments issue is a link provided by Nymphe in the H/Hr thread that explores a theory based on J.K. Rowling’s use of adverbs. You can read about it here.


Possibilities…

Recently it has come to my attention that my previous posts have caused a little distress within some supporters of the R/Hr ship, making them question their established conceptions as of HBP. Not trying to sound too harsh, but that’s actually good! Socrates, a well-known Greek philosopher, taught his students by asking questions so that they could make up their own mind about things and not take them at face value. Even Rowling herself stated that eagle-eyed readers would pick up on some clues at the end of HBP. While I am in no way Socrates, allow me to elaborate on a universal question posed throughout the Harry Potter series—“Is it possible?”

This admission has been echoed by many in the fandom, even some who support R/Hr.

Book 6 was unusual in many ways, several of which mentioned in the John Granger article. I, like you, was affected emotionally by all the events that transpired. I thought it was cute that Harry finally had a crush on Ginny after all these years. I even smiled when they kissed in front of everyone and began accepting them as a couple. I recognized the behavior between Ron and Hermione as a mutual attempt at making the other jealous, and near the end, like H/G, gradually accepted them as a couple, too, even though it was distressing to me as a H/Hr shipper. I was torn to pieces when Snape supposedly killed Dumbledore, which seemed to confirm that Harry was right about him all along. All this came from a straight reading of the book.

However, even while reading all these events, especially those involving Dumbledore’s death, something in the back of my mind kept telling me “this doesn’t feel right”. Too many questions kept popping up:

--Is Snape really evil? Dumbledore, a wise man, has always vouched for him, even after Snape’s involvement with the prophecy was revealed.
--Since Hagrid overheard them talking in the forest, was this whole thing planned?
--How come the Avada Kadavra curse blasted Dumbledore in the air? Every other time, the victim simply dropped to the floor or ground.
--Isn’t it interesting that Dumbledore offered Malfoy a way out of his obligation to Voldemort, saying that he could hide him more completely than he could possibly imagine and that Voldemort couldn’t kill him if he was already dead?
--Why wasn’t Dumbledore’s wand found or mentioned?
--Phoenix tears have healing powers. Fawkes was doing a LOT of crying that night. Could this mean…?
--Why was Dumbledore’s body shrouded from view?
--What was the phoenix Harry saw briefly before the tomb was sealed?
--What did the look of revulsion Snape had before casting the curse mean, and how does it relate to him yelling at Harry not to call him a coward?
--Where are Voldemort and Wormtail? What are THEY doing during all this?
--Back to the ships, how come Harry only becomes jealous in regards to Ginny in book 6? He did not have evil “monster” thoughts about Dean only a few months before when Ginny first mentioned them dating or of any of Ginny’s other boyfriends for that matter.

When all these questions started coming up, I had to ask a broader question: Is it possible?

--Is it possible Snape is still good?
--Is it possible Dumbledore is still alive?
--Is it possible that Harry and Ginny’s relationship is shaky at best?

Is it possible that many of the events that transpired in HBP were in fact attempts at misdirection orchestrated by Mrs. Rowling? She has misdirected us before in earlier installments, and the series hasn’t ended yet.

If this is true, what else is possible?

--Is it possible that H/G and R/Hr will not sail despite all that happened supporting them? Harry and Ginny DID break up, and Ron and Hermione have not come right out and said they were a couple yet.
--Is it possible that H/Hr may end up together in the end, especially if Ron and/or Ginny end up dying in the seventh book? (see various theories)
--For that matter, is it possible that Rowling may go for broke and kill off Hermione, effectively destroying the two main ships?
--Are all the things that were mentioned in John Granger’s article possible?

The point is that we shouldn’t accept things just as they were told to us. We should go deeper to find out the possibilities and hopefully the truth. Is it possible that some of us are going too deep with this? Yes, that is a possibility, and I can honestly say that I will admit that I was wrong should everything that happened in HBP turn out to be true. However, given our past experiences with the genius of J.K. Rowling’s writing, should we be so naïve as to think she would not pull a fast one on us?

No, until the last book is released and all is revealed, we have no choice but to ask ourselves:

“Is it possible?”

And as I’ve said before, we are all Harry Potter fans enduring the same struggles as we attempt to comprehend it all. We should strive to understand, respect, and support one another despite our differences. If we do this, perhaps when everything is said and done, we may even become friends.

That's understandable, but you kind of have to be able to tell the difference between canon and Fandom. I am reading a fanfic about Sirius/Lupin and I can't tell you that I most certainly remember that that is in the world of Fandom. You just have to remember to look at the books. Plus, it would be out of character for Ron or Hermione to go "I love you! Lets go into my room...." That would be out of character for any of them.

Ms. Rowling has never misdirected us. She has left clues and plot lines that have holes in them which are open for discussion. If you would like to give me an example of her misdirection, I would be glad to see it. And something so large as Ron and Hermione, which I think has become so terribly obvious (even to some H/Hr shippers I know) that would be a terrible mistake for JKR to string us along so badly and yank us in another direction. That's not coming from the R/Hr shipper in me, that's coming from the good writing lover inside me. I think if she would've wanted H/Hr to end up, we would've seen more romantic/sexual tension, which we actually have seen absolutely none of. All I see is a fantastic friendship.

I actually think one of the boys will die, not Hermione, and I believe it will most definitely be Ron. Ron is very important to a lot of the characters in the book, so it would be at the greatest emotional cost to the characters to lose him. But I don't think that will leave the door open for H/Hr either.

Yeah... I ain't laughing.

I don't care about the ships - so what, I got it wrong, big deal. What really gets my goat is the assumption that all H/Hr's are thick or stupid for seeing what we did. I mean, come on, you don't exactly need to be Einstein to see the R/Hr bits. It's not like you guys had to look very hard - even JKR said they were "anvil sized". But we thought there was more to it than the surface stuff that seemed obvious - turns out what was obvious all along was right. Hey ho. Can't win 'em all. I guess there are radicals in both camps and it's the minority that give both our sides bad names. H/Hr's are delusional fantasists, R/Hr's are arrogant and rude...well, most people here aren't anywhere near either extreme, thankfully, which is why VTM is such a wonderful haven and we've worked very hard to make it so.

It's very easy to find something funny when you're not the target of the joke. I don't find it funny - but I'm not going to say anymore of what I really think of Emerson because I'm staff and it wouldn't be professional of me, but suffice it to say I've said plenty in the past. I'm glad not all R/Hr's are like him because if they were, I'd have left the fandom long ago.

The problem is, Droobles, that the ships are not the issue anymore. It's the attitude of the shippers themselves that are causing the problems now. Before, there was a friendly sort of banter - now, there's poking fun and downright open hostility, and most of that is from the R/Hr's directed at the H/Hr's and it's got nothing to do with the books anymore - it's one-upmanship, pure and simple. And it's rather pathetic and juvenile, IMHO.

Omerus - I, too, prefer Harry/Luna as a ship, definitely. I'm okay about R/Hr now, a plateau I've arrived at because I've decided that I want to enjoy the final book without thinking how much I hate the ships. Unfortunately, I haven't quite gotten there with regard to the H/G ship yet and I'm not sure I ever will because, back to the literary standpoint again, it was poorly done. Sorry, Jo...you know I love you, but it was poor.

I'm not expecting Darcy/Elizabeth, Heathcliff/Cathy, Brandon/Marianne...heck, I'm not even expecting Buffy/Angel, it's a children's book after all and not a great work of literature - but surely it's not asking too much for there to be at least some consistency? Character development? Something?

Harry/Luna has depth and potential - a truly antithetical relationship. It's just a pity that it doesn't seem to be where Jo wants to go.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that count. The signs were there for a Harry/Ginny hook-up from the very first book (and much more in the second book). It was a lot more subtle than, say, Ron and Hermione (though not as subtle as Harry and Hermione, had that panned out), but it was there. In fact, now that I think back on it, I can recall being called something like "delusional" at least once way back after the first book when I first proposed to someone that Harry and Ginny were clearly going to get together some day. The other person just looked at me like I was insane, wondering where I'd gotten that from. But the evidence was most certainly there. I can see how it would seem out-of-the-blue if you didn't really consider it to be a real possibility, but I don't think it was really was out-of-the-blue at all.

Hmm... I feel like I had something else to say on one of the topics currently in discussion, but whatever it was seems to have been washed right out of my head.