I recently read an article titled HP for Christians (that was written by a Christian and is posted on this site), and the author said that he believes that witchcraft should not be practised because it is evil, etc. and I fully support the author's beliefs and I think that he is entitled to his opinion. The author also said that he believes HP can be read by Christians, as he believes it is written to be perceived as pure fantasy and not reality. The author also said that parents should be sure that their children realise HP is totally fantasy and should not think it is reality and start practising witchcraft themselves.

While I respect the opinion and belief of this author, I must say that I disagree with his last statement of urging parents to make sure their children realise that HP is pure fantasy only. I believe that children today need to believe in some level of 'fantasy' (which the HP books provide), especially with all the terrorism and the war in Iraq going on, and HP provides something that children can believe in and allow their imaginations to grow on. I believe that parents should urge their children to come to their own conclusions about the existence of places of fantasy that they read about in books and see on television. In my opinion, believing in places of fantasy keep hope alive in the human race (which is an especially good thing at the present).

My beliefs may not be for everyone, just like Christian beliefs are not for everyone, so I urge people not to read too much into the HP books, because they are just stories. And yes, while they may be about witchcraft, they are also about things such as friendship and bravery (as the author of HP for Christians also said). I urge people to make their own conclusions about the HP books, whether that be to believe that they are pure fantasty, or that they have fantasy and reality tied together or that they are pure reality. So if you wish to believe in the existence of places such as Hogwarts and Diagon Alley (and I know I do), please do so - because nobody has the right to tell you what you can and cannot believe in.

Please post your thoughts, but this is not a topic just to be slandered at. If you have a genuine interest and belief in anything relating to what I and the author of HP for Christians has said, please reply.

Hehe, I think Matthew (the webmaster) wrote that. I'm nto Christian, so I can't really say anything on this matter, except that I don't think muslims have considered Harry Potter to be evil....we don't really focus on witches and wizards, but we do believe that they exist...and that you shouldn't mess with them.

I think that's it's okay for children to have a suspension of belief.. but to some extend. Eventually the really young ones will realize that sadly, Harry Potter isn't real.

I consider myself Christian (although not very strongely) and I don't see any problem with the Harry Potter books.

In the world we live in today books like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings allow the reader to escape into a different world, one where all things are possible. I believe that children need fairy tales. I believe that adults need fairy tales. It takes your mind off all the bad things and gets you into a good mood. People are too stressed now-a-days and fantasy is a way to relax and allow your mind to wander.

I get teased by my sisters because I still read stuff like the Narnia Chronicles and some Enid Blyton books, I'm 19 and still love getting lost in an imaginary world. I'm Anglican, which is a branch of Christian and I don't agree with Christian beliefs. I understand that they don't want their children to read about witchcraft, but it's like starletta said, they need to give thier children the chance to make thier own decisions about reality and fantasy. We all know that it's just a book, we all know that the stuff that's written doesn't actually work. (I can guarantee that there have been some HP fanatics out there who have tried! Myself not included.)

And I can also understand why they want to protect their children. This world is not like it was when our parents and grand parents were young, there are soo many horrors now and witchcraft is still something that people don't understand. It's being practised more frequently now and I think that's why some Christian followers are scared. It might give their children ideas. No one wants their children to mess with the occult, but they can't expect to stop them doing things all their lives, having too much of a hold on their children may lead them to rebel. I am saying this from experience, no I don't have children but I do have sisters who feel that our parents are restricting them too much and I have seen the seeds of rebellion stirring in them. Parents have to remember that we all grow up, we will one day have to make our own decisions so why not let them start with books? Surly Harry Potter isn't to dangerous to the Christian beliefs.

Oh and if Christian followers are so worried about Harry Potter why not about books like Lord of the Rings? It is the same as HP! Magic, fighting, death, everything. Why do they only pick on HP? Or is it because magic occurs so often in it? I shouldn't have read this thread. I have way too many opinions, and they're really strong ones and I always end up offending someone, or making long posts like this.

If there was a little applause icon, Triad, I'd be using it now!

I made a little decision a while back, after getting...ahem...rather cross.....about something I read on another thread that I wasn't going to reply to any more threads dealing with emotive issues, but I just wanted to say that I thought everything you said was not only valid and very well said, but open minded too - something this topic is sorely lacking in.

So much is misunderstood about modern witchcraft today and I get a bit irritated sometimes by people criticising witchcraft as something evil. Firstly, let me point out that I do not, nor have I ever practised any form of witchcraft! But I do know a little bit about it because firstly, I don't feel it's fair to criticise something that you know absolutely nothing about and secondly, I know someone who is a practising Wiccan. I should also point out that there is virtually nothing(ie less than 0.01%) in the HP books that someone who practises witchcraft would recognise anyway. All the spells are just amalgamations of Latin, French and a couple of other words that have nothing to do with the types of incantations modern witches use (that don't really do much anyway, to be honest! There is no such thing as real 'magic' anyway - black or white).

Witchcraft also has nothing whatsoever to do with devil worship. This common misconception is the result of too many people watching far too much TV, and stems right back to the 1600's when religious extremists, high as a kite after consuming wheat infected by ergot, stirred up all this black magic nonsense which resulted in so many innocent people being tortured and murdered. Absolutely ridiculous. Extremism born from fear and mass hysteria.

The pentagram is actually a symbol of protection and is certainly not the 'mark of the devil' or whatever other hokum Hollywood would spit out. Modern witches just give thanks to nature for everything that's around them...they don't devil worship or stick pins in little dolls or mutter incantations over cauldrons...for goodness sake...it's just too ridiculous for words.

I think all this fuss about the HP books (rather than LOTR) stems from one thing and one thing only - jealousy. People just can't stand to see someone coming from nothing, after working very hard, to be so incredibly successful. Why can't people just be happy for JKR? Why is there this constant need to shoot successul people down in flames? Why aren't people criticising the likes of Dennis Weaver, Stephen King, Dean Koontz, James Herbert or a thousand other authors who touch on magic and evil in their works? It's fiction for goodness sake!

Perhaps all the people who stand there condemning the books should 1) Try actually reading them, 2) Find out more about actual witchcraft before jumping on a bandwagon like a load of sheep and 3) Take a good, long hard look at all the good work JKR has done as a result of her success - donations to charity and promoting their causes, for one.

Now anything that brings a smile to kids' faces in this troubled world we live in at the same time as generating huge piles of funds for charities can't possibly be considered as evil. The only thing evil about this whole thing is people's narrow-minded bigotry.

**sigh** Okay....I'll get off my soapbox now.....sorry.....

Oh Bravo Dana! Bravo! That was brilliant! You said exactly what people need to hear. I have to agree with you on all accounts. Magic isn't a form of devil worship, it's a way to use the things around you, like nature as you said. Although there are some who practise magic and worship the devil but they are few and far between. And people can't help but bring others down. It's in the humans nature. Jealousy and hatred are the top flaws of the humanbeings character. I am open minded about everything. If I don't understand it then there are millions of sites I could go to to read up about what-ever it is and come to understand it. But I hate, yes hate, people who judge before they get the full stpry. I have been known to do that sometimes but mainly because of television propaganda. We can't condem Christian beliefs we just have to challenge them, make them understand that sometimes their beliefs are a little restrictive. Sorry to all Christian out there, I don't want to offend anyone but seriously, they're just books! They came from someones head, from her imagination. Next thing we'll be hearing is the JKR is possessed by the devil himself, that's why she's writing about magic. Ugh, I can't stand this world! I wish I could go live at Hogwarts sometimes.

Wow. Dana & Triad.. good job!! You thoroughly said what I wanted to say, except better.

Like I mentioned earlier, I am somewhat Christian (and NO I was not offended, Triad.. you have your opinions & I don't disagree w/ them) & sometimes I feel like they're wayyyy too reserved. Narrow-minded like someone said and they pass harsh judgements upon something they know nothing about. I am being a tad hypocritical when I say this, 'cause I have thought of witchcraft as being a form of devil worship, before. Now, however, I am older & wiser.. & thanks to Dana and Triad.. I am partially educated about witchcraft and have come to realization that its not such a bad thing. I've read mannnyyy books that deal w/ magic (both good & bad, if there is such a thing).. ie. HP series, Witches Night Out, Sabrina the Teenage Witch. You get my drift, I also thought this interesting.. the former priest of my church has confirmed that he, himself, has read the HP books & absolutely loved them. This comes to show that the fact that we ALL need some sort of escape from the real world once in awhile is quite plausible.. due to the growing problems, we, on this god-forsaken planet face. Why can't people realize that? HP is truly a good thing & pure fiction.. That's all. Hopefully I didn't make a complete & utter fool of myself.

No, of course you didn't, Tash! Although I'm not out to convert anyone to anything...that's what free will is for...I just think that people should be a little more open minded about things, that's all. (How hypocritical am I?! I'm about as closed-minded at it can get over my belief that GG is the HBP )

Anywho.....

I think the fact that the Pope himself has apparently said that there's nothing wrong with the HP books says it all really, and he should know, shouldn't he? If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

I know you have good intentions Dana..!! Thanks for the info on witchcraft though.. & keep that in mind folks, she's not out to convert anyone!!

I agree if the Pope has said it himself, it's more than good enough for me.. yayy!!!

I totally and completly agree. I swear, if I agreed anymore, I would explode. (not that I can of course)

I have actually had an experience like the ones you are talking about. I used to go to a Christian private school and the principal had HP books banned. Kids got detention for bringing them to school. It was completly ridiculous and I was so angry when I found out. The church that was attched to it dissaproved of Harry Pooter so much and I sincerely doubt that any one of them has ever read a single page. They say it is evil and that it teaches children that it is alright to worship the devil. This just makes me so angry!!!

They completely missed the point and are WAY out of line.

I'm just glad that I'm out of that school and away from those people.

You're right, Witch craft is not evil at all!! (not that I practice or have ever practiced either) Ugghh.....

Just making assumptions and being so negative about making children happy. Its insanity!!

Its perfectly possible to be Christian and to be absolutely obsessed with Harry Potter. I do it. And I'm not some devil worshipper.

As I mentioned in another post, I was introdced to Harry Potter when someone from my mother's church lent her Philosopher's Stone....Now, this is someone who's pretty high up in a big church, sent his kids to a christian school run by Robert Maasbach *anyone heard of him?, he's a kinda big evangelist type* and for a while only let his kids watch christian TV shows and ripped up his son's Pokemon cards *and has since gone to set up a church in France*....this wasn't a guy who was ambiguous about what he believed was blasphamous, by any stretch of the imagination...

If someone like him not only deems Harry Potter suitable to read, but to give other people to read, I believe them, you know?

As Dana said, the "magic" in HP, isn't even comparable to the kind of rituals and incantations in magic there is in the real would that maybe one perhaps wouldn't want one's child to get into if you were christian...Sure it might make you go: *I wish I could make my chair walk*...and try and get into how one could get into that.... but hey, such thoughts could enter your head anyway....

There's similar themes deal with in for example, Chronicles of Narnia, but that's actually one BIG allegory for the main threads of the Bible...Flying horses, driads, talking massianic lions......where's the real fundimental differences, other than the storyline itself? *btw, I'm not bashing CS Lewis at all, I was raised on The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe...*
Harry Potter deal importantly, with themes like friendship, honour, bravery...and indeed good and evil....where's the harm in that, even if it is set in a world of non-real things?

Every fantasy book goes along the lines of Bravery, loyalty, friendship and all that. Just because they include magic doesn't mean they're all bad. I love fantasy books, it takes me away from the crud world we live in. I also think that if the Pope said HP is alright then that's great. So why do some Christians go against him? Isn't he like the Christian? I don't know much about the Pope and his purpose but I expect he's like Gods' right hand man. Oh getting onto God now, if he allowed JKR to write about witchcraft and all the 'bad' things then why can't Christians accept it? I mean, he's God for crying out loud, his word is law, so if he let her do it then what's the problem? Ugh, I'll never understand some religions. I reckon if a parent wants to stop their kids from reading HP and the like then that's fine, but to make other people stop their kids reading it is just wrong. And banning them from a library? What's next? Banning the ads on tv? If people keep this up we will be left with nothing but books full of fact with no reference what-so-ever to magic and fantasy.

Well, to be fair, the Pope is only the head of the Catholic church, and not all christians are catholic, but saying that, I would assume on a matter like this, he can be trusted to know from a general christian POV, whether or not it's evil and blasphamous...

Not all Christians believe that the Pope is God's right hand man. To some of them, he's probably just a man.

You know, only once after J.K. Rowling started her Harry Potter Series, did America start having this big scare about witchcraft.

They banned it from the libraries in Alabama and other things that dealt with were soon in their line of fire. I mean really, ban it from church, but ban it at a PUBLIC LIBRARY? It's outrageous to deprive non-christian kids of their reading pleasure or imagination.Dahl's book "The Witches" was also a popular book to pick on (although that book is probably a bit scarier than Harry Potter lol). Shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer were cancelled and the WB show Charmed nearly was as well. Why all this controversy? It probably is jealousy as someone said.

My friend, a devout Christian, was not allowed to watch Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's stone because he said the Bible did not allow them to believe in any form of witchcraft. Well, if he watched it, it doesn't mean he believes it. Being somewhat of a Christian, from which I do believe in Heaven and Hell, and the morals of the Bible (many of which Rowling teaches in her books). I think the reason Church people ban these books because not only do the books teach witchcraft, but it's sort of a double threat. There's suggestions of paganism (Roman/greek/mythological creatures) such as Centaurs and Giants. Maybe the Church means good and doesn't want children bowing down to false idols - one of the commandments.

In a way, I'm playing devil's advocate.

I am happly Catholic, I'm being confirmed next year and I have never taught that Harry Potter was evil. I have heard a few of my fellow Chirstains on this matter thinking that it's evil. I understand their point of view. I think there main worry is the childern, that they'll beleive that being a wicth or wizard is cool. I think people need to learn to give kids more credit than that. I was wacthing Buffy the Vampire Slayer at 7, X-files when I 5, and Star Trek before I could talk. I always knew the differnce from what's in the TV and reality. I must of been a speaical child because it seems that these Chirstains must think their kids would bump into walls if they didn't tell them there was a wall there. And I have quite a few friends who are Wiccan, and Harry Potter magic and the magic in there religon are two very differnt things.

i am a strong christian.. and i have no problem whatsoever reading harry potter. in fact.. i'm quite happily obsessed. my grandmother <<jesus FREAK in not such a good way>> knows that i read hp.. and is absolutely FURIOUS at my parents for letting me read them.. and for me reading them as well. last christmas.. she gave my dad this book about how bad hp is and all of its HORRIBLE connotations.. and she sat there and read excerpts she had earmarked. now that was one interesting christmas

and this isnt the first time i've been bashed for reading books that are supposedly not ::christian:: and ::devilish:: . im not sure if anyone has read the trilogy <<cant think of what its called>> by phillip pullman.. but that is supposedly all dark and all that.. and like i said, i have no problem reading it because i, unlike my grandmother for example, am capable of discerning fact from fiction. and that is something she just cannot get her head around.

______________

.oOo|kaylen|oOo.

The worst part is, these adults are even getting their children to think that the books ARE evil. A friend of mine can basicly watch ANY movie with lots of innuendo, language, and violence. But his parents nearly kept him from watching LOTR, Star Wars, and The Marix. They also had it banned t their Private school, and Because of his parents, he thinks that, Books Like HP are from satan becuase KIDS are doing witchcraft. kisd are supposed to be innocent, thats waht sets it aprt. yet he says that to be saved, your hat has to be ready, so you could be "saved" pr "lost" at four years old. if so, then the kids in HP have made their decison (the fictional characers.) and "Forsaken god," no longer "innocent." also, He LOVES Star Wars (which his mom barely approves of,) yet in Episode II, We see Yoda teaching the Force, or a "form" of magic you could say, to five year old kids!!! some HUMANS are in ther, so he had no way to fall back! He had read the 1st half of SS/PS, ad siad he saw many signs of the book being full of immorality. Though the Bible says that people sahll not practice witchcraft, HP is a fantasy, and if you ban it, you should ban disney movies like peter pan, The sword in the Stone, and Snow white.

~Esrb99~
P.S. I ALSO am a catholic, and the Pope HAS read HP, and deemed them Okay... thats good enough in MY book!

HP actually bears a lot resemblence with real life, if you look at it closely and in general.

There's bullies in it (Dudley and Malfoy), there's true friendship (the trio), there's sportsmanships (Quidditch), there's mischief-makers (Fred and George), traitors (Peter), different teachers characters (McGonagall, Snape, Lupin, Trelawney, Lockhart...)

To me what attract me to read are the similarities it has with real life as it is... the magic and witchcraft included are only adding in.. bits of spices to make it more interesting.

IMO, the good thing is for parents to sit down with their children and read it too... that way, they can discuss what's right and what's wrong... not completely banned them from reading... if anything, it only increase their curiousity of what's inside and read it nevertheless behind their back!

Fortunately, I have not met anyone who is against Harry Potter (only the ones who just treat it as a "toddler fad"), but I am appalled by how the books are treated.

Heh, I'm reminded of a Dogma fanfiction where God (you know, played by Alanis Morisette [I cannot spell that name for beans] ) was best friends with Dumbledore, and the whole situation was hilarious. Sigh, going off topic here.

I know a completely faithful Christian (who has tried numerous times to convert me , I study the Buddha-Dharma) who is a complete Harry Potter fanatic (or was, I think the Princess Diaries series has converted her).

It is amazing how certain Christians (I mean no offense , I used to be Christian myself) can just assume things and judge when that in itself is so immoral. Well, in my opinion, of course....

Oh, don't get me started.....I'm trying to resist banging out my feelings on this subject...if anyone is interested in reading my feelings on religion in general, feel free to trip on over to the 'The Religious Debate' thread in the 'Just Get Away From Life' forum..it's in either the first one or two pages.

Suffice it to say I was in Cardiff shopping yesterday and there were these New-Life Christians handing out leaflets and talking about hell and fire and brimstone and all the wickedness and greed yadda, yadda, yadda....and one of them tried to hand this bloke in front of us a leaflet, he said, 'No, thanks,' and carried on walking and the guy shouted after him, 'You're going to hell, my friend!' and I couldn't help but laugh.....going to hell for not taking a bleepin leaflet...yeah, right...whatever. Never mind the fact that the bloke might have just given £50 to the tsunami relief fund....because he's not interested in what the guy had to say, he's going to hell.

I just don't know what to say to people like that....if anyone thinks that there's anything evil in HP, Star Wars on anything else, I'm sorry, but they're a couple of bananas short of a fruit basket. To me, there's something far more evil about someone who stands in the street ranting at parents in front of their kids that they're going to hell.

Wednesday - about Dogma...I don't remember a great deal of fuss being made about that when it first came out, but that seemed to be having a go at religion far more than HP ever does. That's one of the best films I think I've ever seen, and it really did have morals at its heart, for the people who could be bothered to look for them. Why don't people rant about that? It goes back to what I said earlier on in either this thread or one of the others...can't remember now....it all comes down to jealousy of JKR's success.

Which is supposed to be a sin, incidentally.

Irony is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

Heh... going to hell for not taking a leaflet... really... talk about screwed priorities eh? But good point there mate, it seems to me that people are simply jealous of her success... all of the other details are simply a cover-up to their original intention.

Funny how they can preach about hellfire and sins when they're silently committing them...

But like I said, the best way is to have parents reading it with their children. HP is not that childishly written in fact otherwise not to have adult reading them. Why do you think I like to read it so much? It's the way JKR play with words, you tend to forget that you're reading a children's book when reading HP.

My cousin is like that, anyway. He read HP and his oldest daughter loves HP to bits. If there's anything in it that disturb his daughters view about life, (she's 12 btw, and she's been asking a lot about the graveyard scene in GoF) it's easy for him to relate the story and explain it to her since he had read them himself... yeah... that kind of thing...

personally i don't see what all the fuss is about in Harry Potter - hey guys it is just a bit of escapism nothing else! and people should not get bent out of shape thinking it is anything else.

J.K. would not have intentionally wrote about a fictional boy wizard just to offend any fractions of religion or indeed religous beliefs.

There is too much negativity in the world as it is without quzzing whether the ethics of HP should be banned from kids who enjoy and who can escape into that little world of their own and enjoy being someone else for just a little while (heck i do it every day!)

It should be enjoyed universally for what it is, well written, well thought out and (including the actual films) a well good piece of story-telling!

I agree that Harry Potter does relate to real life (as a lot of truly great stories do) but the Magic and Witchcraft is only a small part of the story line which deals with a much wider range subjects such as the ones already mentioned, friendship, relationships, good and evil, trust and bullying to name but a few.

But for me the big theme that runs through the Harry Potter (and relates to real life) is inequality. We have people who are completely intolerant of other 'beings' who are not similar to them selves; Voldi and his supporters believe they are superior to muggles and hold a belief that 'pureblood' Wizards/witches (who hold beliefs similar to there own) are superior to other wizards. In real life there are also people who are totally intolerant of people ‘different’ to themselves (look at the number of instances of wars in the past 20 years that involved genocide, the civil war in Rwanda, the Yugoslavian conflict.
Again In Harry Potter there are those people who act as if they are tolerant and accepting of others and are ‘fighting the good fight’ but are quite happy in limiting some individuals rights for the apparent good of others, people who I believe fall in to this category in Harry Potter are the likes of Fudge and Umbridge as well as other elements of the ministry of Magic. Dumbledore says, when talking to Molly that Arthur has always been held back at the ministry because of his ‘fondness of muggles’ suggesting that the hierarchy of the ministry do not see muggles as their equals and hold wizards/witches who hold the view that muggles and magical people should be equal with less regard. Umbridge has as we know a hatred of all half breeds and in particular discriminates against werewolves (by introducing legalisation which makes it nearly impossible for a werewolf to get a job) but still believe she is ‘doing the write thing’. There is increasing interlace in most of the western world for asylum seekers and refugees were they are prevented from coming to our countries, even though they may have been fleeing life treating situations.
Also a lot of the relevantly new anti terrorism legalisation such as the American patriot act and the British Anti terrorism crime and security act have reduced everyone’s civil liberties.
As well as this there still remains huge inequalities in the world to day which the people who have the power to change do nothing about.
Harry Potter has in essence got very little to do with witchcraft but even if it did shouldn’t we all be more tolerant of other peoples religions from my very limited knowledge of Witchcraft I don’t see how it is in any way evil.
In answer to the question on the first post I don’t think it is possible to read too much into Harry Potter after all if it were this form would not exist!

I dont see why the church has to have an opinion about every asspect of life. They have no right to control the actions of children, and harsh as it might sound brainwashing children is something the church is clever at! (im part christian, with an opinion hah) they think they have to somehow monotor everything children do! they should worry about the conflicts they have already created and work form there instead of forming new ones that have no point at all. Harry Potter is a book, and that is all J.K doesnt say in it, "Oh and by the way children go home buy some cloaks, a wand, etc, spell book" just because she is introducing a book to were children have more intreset in than the bible the church freaks out and jumps to conclusions! They are so worried about what mistakes our generation might make they dont realize the mistakes that they still to this day make. Just because theres a boy with a wand ( ) and magic doesnt classify something as evil it is a mere fantasy that children wish to imagine because the world around them isnt as great as it is in the book, that should be something the church should think about...not how can we stop them...but why there reading! Because HP is the BEST!!

It seems to me as though the church has an opinion about everything these days. You'd swear that the countries were being run by them rather than the governments sometimes.

The trouble is that for many modern-day issues, the church has no basis of comparison to deal with them so they quote hundreds of years old documents and try to make them apply today and a lot of the time, it just doesn't work.

But I guess that's drifting a bit off topic, I didn't come here to start ranting about religion..

I don't see the harm in letting kids read something that they enjoy just because some narrow-minded adult with issues has a problem with it. That's not what freedom is about.

As a Christain I personally see no problem with the Harry Potter books. Onthe contrary, I believe they solve more problems then they create( One of the few is an arguement like this for example). The bible says that we should take the Log out of our own eye, before we get the speck out of our neighbors. This means that Before we pass judgement on others, we should look at our problems first. What has HP done to christains? The only thing i can see is that kids are interested in reading the books more then the bible. While I personally think that we should read the bible just as much or more then other things, I dont have any control over what my neighbor does. We are all given free choice for a reason. True Cristains believe(not The fire and brimstone idiots) that God gave us free choice to judge our choices, to see if we can tell from right and wrong. HP is a good thing. HP has solved a problem we have had for 40 years. This is getting kids(myself included) off the TV and Computer and into a book. Increased literacy means higher test scores for students. Higher test scores mean more scholarships to collages(sp). A collage education improves our society as a whole. And anyway, If a church has an opinion on an issue, they better be able to prove to me with a bible verse as to why they have taken a stand. I am probally rambling here, so I am sorry.

Craboy

The below post is made by Miss_Moonstone, Feb 18 2005, 03:06 PM on a thread that has been closed.

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i was in a barnes and noble lately and i stumbled upon this section with some books about harry potter. the titles were like 'what's a christian to do with harry potter' and 'god, the devil, and harry potter'.

so i was curious, and picked one up...and the stuff in them was completly ludicrous!

i'll admit that i've heard of christian communitys that banned harry potter becuase it supposedly 'encouraged witchcraft' and all that, but i never realized how serious they were about it!

the books had quotes from christian preachers and such that were saying how they believed the HP books were works of the devil! and none of the preachers had even read them- thats what annoyed me. i don't see how they can fairly judge a book so harshly when they refuse to even read it...and to go to such extents as having actual book burnings? honestly, do people have nothing better to do with their lives then complain about a good peice of literature?

seriously, i didn't know things like that were still going on nowadays...

I was debateing this when I first started to read it as a fad. ( Ilove it now and read it over and over agian. I glad it came into being a fad or I would never even picked up the book or any book for that manner I hated reading) (Back on topic) I almost stoped reading it after hearing these kind of things. I find that if you have any common sense of relizing what is real and what is not. Oh but I forgot some people can't decide which is which on our own . (woops sorry*blushes*) I can't believe that some of us Christians can judge a book by its cover and not read a little bit futher into it at least Before they decide it is EVIL!!!!!. (this is were if I have memorized the bible I would spill out a verse but I only on Exodus so I can't)
The Dogma thing I never seen it but probaly it hasn't gotten the attetion as Harry Potter that it don't (whatever it has agianst christanity or what ever religion) come directly out with it as Harry Potter does. Come on if we believe all magical stuff is EVIL!!!! then reading about Unicorns and Dragons and EVIL!!! (I read the Unicorns Chroniclas another of my fave books)
If you take the magic away from the picture is it really a good vrs EVIL!! thing. It might be a more boring book if you take the magic away though. Come on Harry , Dumbledore good Voldemort EVIL!!!
I feel that there is nothing wrong with this book no obsenitys or anything like that and as long as you are smart enough to figure it out it fake. It nice to go into a magical land were you have to picture things differnetly that real life. People keep on saying don't judge a book by it cover Well put your foot were your mouth is !!!!


MOD EDIT : Hello and welcome to the forums!! I've spotted some minor netspeak in you post. The use of netspeak is not allowed in this forums. Please read the rules. Your post has been edited.


What netspeak I never used it to my knowlege,

I like the way you think, this is so true because I'm getting tired of this christanity thing. But anyways all hail Harry Potter!!!

Im not so sure about the christianity bit, but i think people are looking / finding clues that arent actually there.

Like the HBP theories. Its possible to come up with an arguement for every character to be the HBP because of one reason or another.

I just think people are trying to find things that arent there

Didn't the Pope (May he Rest in Peace) say that the HP books were good for kids to read, i think i heard that once, that it taught children the importence of study, bravery, morality and friendship, which is really what we should be teaching kids. He said the fact that it was to do with magic wasn't an issue, kids know it doesn't exsist and stuff.

My best friend is a very strong Chistian and doesn't read Harry Potter because of that, every one (even her mum) tells her she's being an idiot, but all the same she doesn't condem me for being obsessed, she merely says that she won't read them. And that's good enough for me

I've also got a good mate who's Pagan, and he hates HP because:

'It's so unrelaistic, waving wands, and saying spells. Wicca is a relgion and the HP have none of that. They're quite pathetic'

So....there you have it. HP is nothing like the magic that christians have to fear.

Ygraine

Ok. People were asking why are people against HP but not LOTR.
I think the answer is that people take LOTR as a Christian allegory (J.R.R.Tolkien insisted that it wasnt an allegory, but many people see it as one.)With Frodo as Jesus, sacrificing himself etc. Therefore they forgive the hocus pocus mumbojumbo. Also LOTR would be more of an adults book.
HP is a childrens book, which (as far as i know) is not a christian allegory, and which takes place in modern times.
That is why In my humble opinion, people attack HP but not LOTR.

Of course, I dont agree with their views at all, I see no problem at all with Harry Potter, and I dislike the fact that LOTR is viewed as just a christian parable. But thats why I think people are like that.
Hope that made sense!

Harry Pooter?

sorry had to point that out

I am Christian!!!!!!!!!!! and believe that harry potter will not convert a child to witchcraft though if a child needs fantasy then Harry potter is great outlet but they also need to believe it to a point or there perception of real and fantasy will become blurred. My church has not thought badly of hp and in fact we talk about it and I do believe that hp has alot of similaritys to that of Jesus Christ though i think that of every novel or book I read i just hope Christians stop perscuting hp and see the good it is doing it is helping little children to read and I have developed a stamina for longer reading so now i am patient when i read the bible like hp because you read is once you get one message you read it another time you get another message

wow that's my longest post!

My beliefs are that children are entitled to read whatever they want,doesn't matter what genre.I think that HP is a good way to broaden a childs and teens imagination and I think that there are many valuable lessons to be learnt from the books and that is also a good thing.

I agree with the author that as long as children know that it is fantasy and that practising witchcraft is wrong then I don't see why they can't read it.Lessons are leant like love is imprtant if you believe andthat friendship means alot.

I am a christian and our minister at church has a son and he reads the books and he says that it isn't wrong in his opinion and children should know that it isn't real.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.Great people like Mandela believe that reading instills in a person and child the inner strength adn he encourages reading of all sorts.Most people believe that reading can be one of the reasons to success.

Therefore I think if reading encourages success why can't we be allowed to read fantasy etc. if people are ruling against it?In my opinion reading includes all genres and I think JK didn't write the books for people to actually practise it,and I don't see why some people have to be "prejudice" towards her if there are many fantasy books out there and they haven't received any unruling comments aginst the books.

I just wish that people would look harder at the books and see what good the books are doing cos I believe there are more good values than bad and I have to agree with chochang88.

[COLOR=blue] JK Rowling wrote Harry Potter for entertainment, she's a writer and never intended the stories to be anything more than that. It is not balanced for anyone to try and use the popularity of the HP books to support any political, social or religious idea. Just enjoy the story for the pure enjoyment of reading. What is tne need for constant analysis. They're good stories, great stories -no need for any further speculation outside of the realm of imagination. People, just enjoy!

Anyhoo, that's my oppinion!

I'm Christian, and I have nohting against Harry Potter, or anything that goes on, because I know that it is fake...

But me being 11, I've lost my inocence so quickly now. ;( But anyways, I love to just play around pretending to be a wizard myself. (And I can't believe i justn told everyone that. )

Anyways, I believe that all parents should urge their children to keep imagining and believe in what they believe in. They'll find things out for themselve.s Their freinds will influence them, so they should get to know their friends too. School, chuirch, teams, clubs, everything. This helps the parents see what influences the child.

I am Catholic and go to a strict Catholic school. We have a church there and go to mass. The Priest at my school has read them and is interested in them. Our Pope (R.I.P.) said there was nothinng wrong with them. When Half-Blood Prince was realease the school Libraian read it all weekend and wrote a quiz on it. Anyone that read it could do the quiz and enter a compition to win a book voucher at a book shop. The school has nothing against it. Our Deputy Principal was asking people if they had read it and my friends and I sat down at lunch and read it.

I personally don't think there is really any real witchcraft in it because my good friend is Wiccan and has read it. She says there is nothing Wiccan about it. She doesn't worship the devil but she does stick pins in dolls that are our enimies.

The Harry Potter series was not written to cause religious arguments. I wonder how Jo feels about her books being called devil and satan linked. I feel sorry for her.

O.K.
I am a Christian and I do not beleive these books are evil, but if I did, why would i be here? That makes the arguement a tad one sided.
No-one is going to keep on beleiving in HP past about 8, I'm afraid, and 8 year olds are unlikely to practice any more magic than waving a stick going Wingardium Leviosa.(OK I do this cos im being stupid but no other reason)
This will probaly sound really harsh and probaly religion - ist if there is such a word, but Christians believe that (is that better?) wiccans go to hell, but so do non - beleivers so there is not much gap between the two. So it makes not that much odds.
Basically, my views on Wicca is that one should avoid it full stop if one is a Christian, whatever its like, whichcraft is wrong but that does not affect Harry Potter coz hes not real.
I went through these books, the 1st book it is Love that saves Harry, the next is his loyalty to Dumbledore (RIP) then, well thats just confusing cos of the timeturner, the fourth is ummmm, O.K now my argument becomes less well founded so I wont continue on that thread.

Oy, oy, oy....whoa now.

You can believe whatever you want to believe, but I will NOT allow you to say ANYONE is going to hell for something they believe on this site.

I want that made perfectly clear.

We do not tolerate extremist views of ANY description on this site so I would respectfully request that you refrain from posting such inflammatory things in the future and respect that not everyone believes the same things you do.

Keep it general in this thread or it'll get locked.

I definately think that as long as people know that it is fantasy then everything will be fine. People get way to worked up about this. Long live Harry Potter!

I agree people need to realize HP is fantasy. However, Wicca and Witchcraft are not. Like it or not, its real and it works. I am not going to "Hell" because I practice witchcraft, quite simply because I dont believe Hell exists. You can believe and practice whatever you want, just dont try to shove your religions down my throat. Witchcraft is not wrong or evil, and if you think that its because you are ignorant and dont understand it.

I, too, agree that HP is only fantasy. Upon buying the books for their children, it is the parent's duty to explain to a young child that it is a mere story, and that the magic in HP is fictional, and not real. This works especially well for Christians too. I am a Christian myself, though a rather lax one. What better way to insult things that you don't believe in than saying they're not real?

Allowing a child not to read it, to me, is a parent's way of saying "I don't want to be responsible for explaining things to my kid, because I'm too ignorant. So by not letting them read these books, I won't have to do it. He might try to fly a broomstick out the window, which he wouldn't do in the first place if I explained it to him, but I already decided I'm not doing that. So he's just going to have to find something else to read."

I think of the magical community in Harry Potter more as a 'nationality' than a religion. I have never felt magic was talked of in a religious way in the books, and plenty of the characters are muggle borns and not have even known they were wizards until they got the letter, and so it is perfectly feasible that they practised Christianity or Islam or Hinduism etc as a child and still throughout their life at Hogwarts. Look at what festivals Hogwarts celebrates - Christmas and Easter. Both Christian holidays. In fact the only mention I can think of of a pagan festival is that they have a special feast on Halloween. (Which many pagans will probably know as Samhain). Hogwarts don't do any other special spells or anything on Halloween, in fact in my mind it is quite reflective of Halloween in general in our society as a commercial holiday - never anything about the real meaning behind Halloween/Samhain at all.

I shall say that I am a Pagan and celebrate all the festivals we mark based on nature and the natural cycle of the year. But i don't go around putting spells on people because this is wrong, in fact I rarely do spells at all. I was taught that if you do something harmful it will come back to you threefold and that it is wrong to hurt anyone. Something that our modern society with its wars, terrorism and general lack of respect for any other living person just doesn't seem to comprehend.

My boyfriend is a Catholic and loves Harry Potter. It is just fantasy after all and not actually real. I love fantasy books and I always have, as a child I remember playing games based on lots of books I read, including Narnia, Famous Five or any other children's books my sister and I read. But then again we also used to play out tv programmes such as Power Rangers and X-Men (oh and Captain Planet - remember that!). It doesn't mean we believed it, it was just fun to play. (I am actually too old to play at Harry Potter now....) Children should be encouraged to use their imaginations not forbidden, but also be taught right from wrong and fantasy from reality. And I assume I'm right in saying it is wrong to hurt anyone, whichever religion you follow. (There aren't any religions that say that's ok are there??)

I am of the opinion that children should be taught about all religions in an unbiased way because I think the problem today is ignorance which leads to intolerance. I was disgusted with the remarks a 10 year old relative made about Muslims - yet he knows absolutely nothing about Islam except from his father who knows nothing about them either, just whats been fed to him by the media and his upbringing.

My boyfriend's brothers are both supposedly 'born again christians' but the way they act you would never have guessed. I have never met more amoral people in my entire life - yet they lecture me on my beliefs! They drink themselves stupid, they've done drugs, they have 3 illegitamite children between them, who they don't have anything to do with and yet mention HP or witchcraft.... I'm sorry? I'm the one going to hell am I? Hmmm....

Anyway, I'm going slightly off topic now shall I shall stop....

Can you think of the way HP would be written if it didn't contain magic? There would be the Enid Blyton type set up with the school, but then there would be this scary extremist bloke trying to kill a young kid - I don't think I'd want my children to read that so much. It would make them too scared to go to sleep at night! And also way too realistic to my mind - what with that poor little girl being snatched right out of her house by some evil paedophile a couple of weeks ago. Now that's real evil. There are some true horrors in this world I would be much more worried about protecting my children from rather than reading HP. Fantasy lets me still believe that there is still some good in this world when all you ever seem to be surrounded with in the media are terrible things. (I guess the good things aren't as interesting to broadcast...)

(BTW I don't actually have children yet... I'm not that old.... hehe)

OK... stop rambling....

Well, I think he's completely right. HP is just a book and shouldn't be taken literally. I'm a Christian and in loooooooooove with HP! But I think parents should make a point that none of it is real, not that they're gonna go out and try doing magic cuz that's impossible.

It all depends on your maturity level. If you're stupid enough to toy with the devil then that's your own problem.HP is not evil-it's people who are evil. You can't make a book or object evil, you can only be eveil yourself. I say read it as much as you want, but don't be stupid.