Okay, just to start this one off then...

Personally, I think it's Regulas Black. Yes, it's the obvious choice, but given JKR's comments in the Leaky/Mugglenet interview...

There have been a lot of theories.

I'll list them so you guys can add to the possibilities or discount them.
Keep in mind, it doesn't mean they are RAB, it could mean that they wrote the note (with RAB meaning something else like Reign, Alliance, Blood)
-Dumbledore
-Mrs. Figg
-Regulus Black
-Borgin
-Tonks
-Lupin
-Rabastan Lestrange
-Rudolphus Lestrange
-Bellatrix Lestrange
-Madam Rosmerta
-the "Brutal-Faced death eater"
-Snape

I know I have left some off...

Along with names, we also have circumstances. Switched before the cave, or after? How? Whats with the fake locket?

In my opinion, its the "Brutal-faced" death eater (at least this is my theory this week)...who is Regulus Black (they are one in the same). Regulus Black (remember...just a theory) found out about a secret of Voldemort's and was going to tell him about it. However, when he found out what it could possibly mean, he started backing out of the death eaters. Instead of being killed, he was punished by being given a brutal face. With such a horrible punishment, he took advantage of his secret and wrote the note (signing it RAB for either his name or that code). After attempting to retrieve the Horcrux, he went into self-exile, and was proclaimed dead. He resurfaced when Voldemort resurfaced, and was there when Snape killed Dumbledore.

We know Harry chased Snape, but its what happened right before he left the tower. He drops his invisibility cloak and hexes the brutal-faced death eater. I think this person went back up, after realizing Harry wasn't visible before, and got the cloak, went back downstairs, found Dumbledore's body and did the switch (he had the locket on him ever since he wrote the note).

Now...how did this person find out that it was a locket...in order to write the note and place it in a locket? I'm not entirely sure, which is why I have kept my options open.

My other thought is Dumbledore. He fullfilled everything on the note except for destroying it...but once again, how did he know to replace it with the right item? How would anyone have known that the locket was in the cave? Dumbledore knew what the Horcrux objects were (or most), but not exactly which ones were in which location.

Thats just to begin with, theres more questions and scenarios to come, but I'll save it for later.

Wow That's one complicated theory!! A wonderful one, mind you, I'm not criticising! If someone's written a fanfic centred around this I'd love to read it because it sounds brilliant, honestly!

Personally though, I can't see it. I'm certain that Regulus is dead - JKR said so. Plus she seemed very...ooh, what's the word...erm....blase? Amused? Something like that...at the Sirius' mirror comment made in the interview. I'm pretty sure that she said that's going to be important sooner or later and what better way for Harry to find out about Regulus and what he may have done than via Sirius' mirror, which has yet to be included?

Have to go now...24 is on in half an hour and I need to shower before it comes on...

Hey Louise, I did write a fanfic! I'm not done with it yet but the first three parts are in it. Its called "To The Dark Lord".

Now, onto the switch. Theres been a huge discussion on when it really happened and who did it and why.

I'll offer theories that I've read and added to from the pre-book 7 discussion.

-Snape made the switch by running back to Dumbledore's body after Harry chased him.

-a member of the Order was stationed at the bottom of the tower

-a death eater did the switch, who isn't as loyal as one might think

-it happened before Dumbledore and Harry got to the cave. Whether that was Regulus, or someone else like Rabastan or Borgin.

-------theres a lot more, I'm just throwing things out there to get everyone thinking!

This RAB thread better be better than the other one....

But anyway, I have never seen that interview previously, until I just read it, and that makes me want to believe it is Regulus even more. I have always thought it Regulus, and I don't think he's too obvious. We are just thinking more.

I have always liked Chris's theory about the brutal faced guy, but I am skeptical about it being Regulus because it says Regulus was killed by Voldemort. But perhaps we should keep that guy in mind.

I'm soory but I'm going to have to disagree about Mrs. Figg and Rosmerta. Mrs. Figg is Squib, and she is basically about as useful as a Muggle. But she couldve been put under the Imperius Curse, right? I don't really think so. I don't even think that a lot of the DE's (Death Eaters) even know who she is. Perhaps maybe she is storing something at her house at Dumbledore's orders, but that's all I can think she'd be doing.

Rosmerta is kind of the same. I just don't think she would be in on any of this. Though her name does conveniantly start with an R, I don't think we can automatically assume she has something to do with it. I don't even think she had anything to do with a Switch, if there was one upon exiting the cave. I don't think DD has enough trust in her. Plus she was under the Imperius curse for half of the book, so how would he have been able to properly communicate with her? She just seems unlikely to me.

I think the Switching was done before Dumbledore and Harry got there simply because in the time span after the got out, I don't see any point in which there could've been a Switch. This has been a hot point over in the other RAB thread, and I still don't think there is any really good evidence where someone could've done a switch. Not even Snape. We'll get into that later, I'm sure.

That's all for now.

Chris, that is a very good therory and it all makes sense. I have always thought that it was Regulus Black. He seemed to have startled JK in that interview and she seemed to get jitty when they talked about it.

Now Passerby brought up a good point that the house would have gone to Regulus if he was still alive but Bella was on that tree and she would have been the best canadate since she was still alive. My therory on this is that Regulus was a disgrace to the Black family like Tonks and Sirius was because he got too scared of the DEs so he went under the radar. Now Sirius gave everything that he owned to Harry and that ment that since he had ownership of the house, he was able to give it to Harry. Thats what I think at least.

I read your theories and i think they are all good enough to happen..well i think it is regulas black and here is why:
“To the Dark Lord, I know I will be dead long before, you read this but it is I who discovered your secret, I have stolen the real Horcrux and intend to destroy it as soon as I can, I face death in the hope that you will meet your match. You will be mortal once more. R.A.B.”
~ Hardback (US) Half-Blood Prince ~ Page #609
So this is the thinking machine should start to work. Were have we heard of a R.A.B. before? Sirius Black had a brother named Regulas Black did he not? Since for now we only have one thing tackled, that leaves another question, we have a name but how could we connect this person to the Blacks? For those of you who ask this question I give you my next piece of evidence, and my answer, which you will find in Order of the Phoenix.
“They found an unpleasant looking silver instrument, something like a many-legged pair of tweezers, which scuttled up Harry’s arm like a spider when he picked it up, and attempted to puncture his skin; Sirius seized it and smashed it with a heave book entitled Natures Nobility: A Wizard Genealogy. There was a musical box that admitted a faintly sinister, tinkling tune when wound, and they all found themselves becoming curiously weak and sleepy until Ginny had the sense to slam the lid shut; also a heavy locket that none of them could open, a number of ancient sears and, in a dusty box, and order of Merlin First Class that had been awarded to Sirius’s grandfather for “service to the Ministry.” ~Hardback (US) Order Of the Phoenix ~ Page #116
And we know from Sirius that his brother was a shady character in the first place. These pieces of evidence could prove who R.A.B. is or it could prove there was a locket in place but had no connections at all.

Well I'm new in this whole RAB discussion. Somehow the theory that RAB was Regulus Black was just too simple for me, but I do have to admit that this locket mentioned just in 1 sentence in OotP makes one suspicious. So there is a good chance that RAB is Regulus, but I just have this feeling that it's too simple. Maybe someone can help me here getting totally convinced .

Now, the death eater at the end of HBP really made me wonder. Who is he? And why doesn't he have a name? All the others have a name, and I think it's important that he's not presented to the reader by name. However, I don't think that this death eater is Regulus. Regulus is dead, I think that is quite clear. But who could that man be? I think I have to go back to the book and read that scene over, maybe I can find a hint. Because if Regulus isn't RAB, then I'm totally convinced that this death eater is the man.

Yes, the thing is that we have no proof that he is dead.....i mean, Sirius was never on good terms with him so he did not know anything much about him..as far as i ermm..think
anyway....i was suspicious that the locket they mention in OotP is the real one and Regulas Black is now dead. He said he would be dead long before LV reads this....well i think LV kiled him because he didnt attend one of the death eater meetings or something like that..(because he was finding the locket) and then found LV the note....and got really agry or maybe he stil hasnt found it

back in the pre-book 7 RAB discussion, hp6 introduced a questionare (I think it was hp6) and it should help give everyone a look at where we all stand.

Well, I have never liked the excuse that since Regulus was too easy of an answer than he was a bit out of the running to be RAB. We have all been reading Harry Potter for a while now, it came out in 1998. So we are all getting smarter and thinking more, remembering more because we know it will be important to something later. Plus, Regulus and RAB were mentioned in two different books, so it wasn't THAT incredibly obvious, we just happened to remember his name. Plus, you've got Rodolphus, and Rabastian and probably some other R named Blacks, so...you know.

JTD, I think you just shut down my theory about Regulus...its not definite, but I'm convinced now...sort of . Well, I guess it just means that Regulus isn't the "brutal faced death eater"

But he could have been presumed dead, not by a magical means, but someone was writing who died down. Whether that was a family member or Kreacher or someone.

I didn't mean to shut down your Brutal-faced guy/Regulus theory, Chris. I had actually posted right after you, so...yeah. Sorry about that!!!

For those who still think Regulus Black is dead, I will suggest you take a look at this. Notice the death date under Regulus. I'm guessing the tree is magical and updates itself, so I think we can be pretty sure Regulus is dead.

Wasn't Regulus 15 when he died? He was the undetectable (sp?) person if he was. Therefore, if it was pre-Dumbledore and Harry, I think it was him and Orion (from the family tree)...who died the same year and might be an inferi in the cave (as in the potion turns you into one). AND Orion still has the Horcrux on him, which means when Harry accioed the Horcrux and heard a splash and saw a hand in the cave, it was Orion with the Horcrux.

Basically:
-somehow Regulus finds out about the Horcruxes
-somehow he finds the cave and finds out its a locket
-writes the note
-Orion and Regulus set out to destroy the locket
-Orion drinks the potion (it records Regulus's horror at whats going on)
-Orion dies in the cave
-Regulus takes it back home to figure out how to destroy it
-He's then killed for wanting out of th DE's
-Years later, Harry and co. come across the locket
-Harry and Dumbledore go to the cave and really find the fake
-after Dumbledore's death, Harry takes the fake
-now Harry will have to go back to the cave to get the locket

OR
-Mudungus sold the locket to Aberforth
-Aberforth will give it to Harry

*but why wouldn't Aberforth tell his brother so they wouldn't have to go to the cave?

When you look at the black family tree, then Regulus died at 18. bzw, thanks Just the Droobles. I think he really is dead. With him at 18 I think he really could have stolen the locket and is RAB, for I always thought that that note is written in a rather childish way, if you compare it to other notes that were written throughout the books. What do you think?
Who exactly is Orion? I never heard of that guy? I don't know if I have a blackout now, but I really don't know who he is.

Laudine, have a look at this thread here which is all about the revealed family tree of the House of Black.

Orion is the name of Sirius Black's father.

I've changed my theory...in fact...I've changed my whole thought process. I used to think the switched happened after Dumbledore and Harry got it...now its the opposite. Let me explain...

Orion Black (Sirius and Regulus's father) and Regulus venture to the cave (how they found out about the cave remains a mystery to me). They get through the defenses and finally come upon the basin with the Horcrux inside. Orion decides to drink the potion. Like Dumbledore for a minute, he appeared dead, and had managed to get the Horcrux too. Without thinking, Orion quickly got out of there and realized what happened: he left his dad in there, and the Horcrux. Thinking his dad is dead, he goes home and writes the RAB note and places it in a locket of his own. He goes back to the cave but finds Voldemort there torturing his father (hence what Dumbledore was saying when he drank it). Regulus and Orion are then killed by Voldemort (and their death dates magically go onto the BFT like JTD said).

**Voldemort was there because he sensed his Horcrux being tampered with...maybe this sense he has was destroyed when he attacked the Potters or when he was reborn)

Voldemort, thinking that if Orion and Regulus can get in then almost anyone can, decides to add a final trick. He makes Orion---the theif he is---into an inferi and keeps the Horcrux on him (which is why Harry heard the splashes when he accio-ed for the Horcrux). He replaces the potion with the "recordings" of Regulus's shock about Voldemort torturing his father and killing him and Regulus. He also takes the fake and puts it back into the basin and leaves after throwing Regulus's dead body and infer Orion in the lake. OR he could have let Regulus live with a "brutal face" or let him go and gave him a chance and later killed him (unlikely I think).

Why do this? Because the next person or people to come along will have to go through the same defenses that Regulus and Orion did. Only this time, in the confusion of attacking inferi, they'll swipe the fake thinking it the real only to find out later what it is. They'll figure that they'll have to go back and get it and face the inferi, or figure that RAB destroyed it (which is what Voldemort wants them to think).

AND Regulus wrote it the way he did because his father was presumed dead, he blamed Voldemort of course...so he took it out in writing the note.

NOW, whats the secret? How did they find the cave?
I think the secret is the Horcruxes (I know...it mentions a secret and the Horcruxes in the note so some believe they're two separate issues...or the secret could be knowing he has Horcruxes...contrary to what Voldemort said in the graveyard in book4, but Regulus wasn't a higher up, so it was a secret to him).

That leaves the cave...what do you guys think about it and my theory?

Interesting theory. It is a lot like mine but not quite.

Sorry, I was tired...I meant Regulus getting out

As for Voldemort knowing, it fit my theory because...

But how did the potion replenish itself?
I would guess that is what it was supposed to do. I'd think Voldemort probably thought more than one person would go through there and drink it, so he had to set it to refill. Didn't they have to use blood twice to get through that one barrier? If they had to do that again, seeing as it must have reset, I'd think the other things would reset too.

Why did the inferi when Harry tried to accio the Horcrux react the way it did?
I think that was just a defense. It was the Inferis' job to protect the horcrux. No one is going to just Accio something and it be that easy. The thing is, I believe that was the fake in the basin, simply because I never saw a time frame where it could've been switched. But the Inferi still thought it was the real one apparently. Maybe that's just how they had been programmed. So it was the Inferi's natural job to jump up and perhaps try to block any spells that tried to fly in and obtain the horcrux.

If it was, why didn't he tell his brother?
The only thing I could suggest on this, since it does sort of puzzle me, is perhaps some one had mentioned the locket at #12 to DD. He requested Aberforth to get his hands on it just for safe keeping. Meanwhile, DD went on to go get the one in the cave. He died before he found out he had the fake, so he never really got a chance to get the one from Aberforth. I think Aberforth will be introduced in the next book, ask about the locket in the cave, and upon realizing they had a fake, bring up the one he bought from Mundungus and...it'll go from there.

The only thing that stumps me about RAB is if it was Regulus, and he took Orion with him, why did Orion go if he was for Voldemort? Sirius sadi they supported him but had never joined the DEs. Regulus had to have help, but was it really Orion?

If the pre-book 7 discussion continues on its path to destruction, we can continue it here. Me and the other Inquisitorial Squad members (Greg and Secret), with the help of Louise have come up with a three strike system. So if those who argue in that thread and are accepted into the Great Hall start that up here, and continue after being warned the various amounts of times, we will recommend them being booted from the Great Hall and all they can do after that is read!


As for what you said JTD, maybe Orion simply didn't go. Regulus, him being of age, managed to go to the cave and go through the defenses, and come back with the Horcrux. How did the fake then wind up in the basin if Regulus went back? Maybe we were fooled by Sirius, not on purpose of course (another literary device)...he said Regulus was killed by Voldemort or by his orders. Maybe, if the potion kills, it didn't show how he died, so it was presumed that the AK curse hit him. Aurors wouldn't have done it, so it must have been a fellow DE or Voldemort himself right? Before he died, he told his father what happened. Not telling anyone else, he goes to the cave and leaves the fake and may have been killed there. Just a theory...
Some holes in it as usual of course.

I was one of the many who did not immediately think "Regulus Black" after reading book six; I had no idea.

After lurking a few HP sites I read the theory and an interesting thought did occur.

What if it was Regulus, and he took Kreacher with him? He would never think to give the house elf any credit on the note, as you would have if somebody had helped you. Kreacher doesn't have 'normal' wizard power and so may have been 'undetected', and he would have had to have done what Regulus said.

It might help explain why Kreacher is nut-case too because even if Kreacher was not the one forced to drink the potion, he would have had to watch his master suffer it his hands as he fed him the drink.

Kreacher's magic may even have been able to get around Voldemort's protections.

I also thought the loss of her favourite son may have sent Mrs. Black (and her portrait) around the twist, and she took Kreacher the rest of the way.

Well, I've finally had enough of the standard R.A.B. thread and decided to come over here and check out what you guys have going on. The discussion already seems to be clearer and more logical. It's refreshing. I tried to get some sort of organization going over there, but it doesn't seem to be holding to well. We'll see.

So, already I have some ideas that have sprung from reading the posts here. We know that Regalus was of age when he died, so I would assume that he wouldn't have been able to cross in the boat with his father. I believe that Orion was killed prior to Regalus entering the cave and that was Regalus's motivation for seeking revenge against Voldemort. From all we heard about the protections on Grimmauld Place prior to the Order entering, I think that Orion was hiding for some reason.

I agree with Droobs regarding the inferi splash with the accio. I think it was just part of the defenses. Dumbledore seemed to not be suprised. If that was a clue to the location of the horcrux, I think he would have looked into it. When Harry asked to try the accio command, Dumbledore figured that it wouldn't work, but decided that there was no harm in trying. Dumbledore made a few comments about how crude the defenses were and about Voldemort underestimating his enemies. Voldemort believed that only very powerful wizards would attempt to penetrate his defenses and this lead him to leave holes that could be exploited by someone less powerful. I think Dumbledore believed the accio could have possibly worked for this reason.

The boat is also an example of this. Voldemort thinks that only powerful wizards would try to cross in the boat and they would be forced to go alone. This would force them to drink the potion by themselves and then become trapped on the island. From what Dumbledore said, the potion was meant to keep the drinker there so that Voldemort could personally question them and then kill them. I don't think the potion kills. It just keeps you from finishing it and then keeps you there. Finally, if you manage to drink the whole thing, you will need to drink the water. This is the last defense. It would activate the inferi so that the person couldn't take the horcrux. All of this can be avoided if the person brings a helper. Dumbledore brought Harry and I believe that Regalus brought Kreacher. Does anyone else think that the house elves are going to play some part against Voldemort in the end? I just can't see the whole Hermione house elf bit being in the story without having some importance later on.

I also think that it might have been Bellatrix that revealed the horcrux location to Regalus. Her little near slip up to Snape, I think, revealed that she knew about at least one of the horcruxes. Perhaps it was the cave. I could see her talking up how important she is to her cousin Regalus and giving away the cave location.

So, that was a long first post. I had a lot on my mind. Let me know what you think.

Also, thanks to crsbda for telling me about the dueling club. Thanks for the invite.

Vulturemort, hopefully we can keep it more organized in here! In the other, no disrespect to anyone in there, it gets too heated and it kind of is disorganized, or it was, theres some now...but theres always something that is brought up that takes it all out of wack.

crsdba,

That's a great point about Bellatrix and the other death eaters torturing the Longbottoms. It was well known in the wizarding world that Voldemort was dead and defeated. Everyone was celebrating in the streets. Of course there were people on the good side that figured that he would return, but there were also people on the bad side that perhaps knew he was going to return. The fact that they didn't believe he was dead seems to be evidence that they knew about horcruxes, although it could simply mean that they knew he talked about being immortal and couldn't figure out how he was dead. I never thought about that.

How many of Voldemort's Death Eaters knew that he had some antiques of Slytherin? They knew he had the ring, because he wore it. Do you think that more than one of them knew that he sought that necklace? So, perhaps after seeing his pursuit of the necklace (or his posession of that necklace), the "turn-coat" knew enough about Voldemort, and his plan (as the note suggests) to bring a variety of "replacements" to the cave.

As vulturmort said, this guy (or girl), had had enough time to do research before going into a situation where the person would know that Voldemort would surely have many protections.

I have to doubt Bellatrix, because she is ever loyal to the Dark Lord. She shows no signs of even thinking of betraying him. She definately wants to be his "favorite." And I think if she did show signs of betrayal, Snape would have pointed that out when she interrogated him at Spinner's End. . .

I'm assuming Regulus finished his schooling at Hogwarts, then joined the death eaters, and that he died when he was 18 (born in 1961, died in 1979). So he would have had a maximum of about six or seven months to do his research (from when he graduated and the maximum amount of days in the year...which ends on December 31st)...so where was I going with this?

Oh, he would have had about 6 or 7 months worth of research time, assuming he finished school first. If not, then of course there would be more months or years. So he see's Voldemort walking around with his locket and figures..."hey, that might be a Horcrux..."

jk...he found out about the Horcruxes somehow which prompted him to do that research...because he couldn't have been researching something he didn't know about...or didn't think it would be important (I remember Ron not knowing what Horcruxes were...so maybe a lot of witches and wizards didn't know back then as well).

A candidate who may have told him was Bellatrix, as vulturemort said, because she nearly reveals too much in certain chapters...she seems to think she's all high and mighty or something. Another could be Snape (remember...this was before he supposedly turned good). We can go as far as saying Dumbledore told him. But whoever told him had to have been one of these...1)anticipating Regulus doing something about it....2)just blabbering about Horcruxes...3)wanted Regulus to join them in the defeat of Voldemort...there could be more choices.

So this may usher in something new, even though I've been saying this (and yes, my theory on RAB and his/her's circumstances surrounding the Horcrux are constantly changing!). Orion found out about the cave and discovered the basin not the Horcrux. He knew it had to do with Voldemort, so he placed enchantments around his house in case Voldemort found out he was at the cave...and I guess he took a sip and of the potion and saw Voldemort's true colors or something. Regulus wonders what he is doing and Orion tells him. Regulus decides to investigate the matter further (Orion told him about the cave and the basin and where it is)...somewhere along the line he learns that its a locket in the cave...so he takes one of his own, writes a letter making sure Voldemort would know that it was him and not his father (not because he feared his father's death but because he's arrogant), runs off to the cave with Kreacher...they do the switch...Looking from the outside, one would see that Kreacher is suddenly all out of wack, Regulus is wanting out of the Death Eaters, and for some reason Orion has put up protective enchantments on his house. On top of that, it is reported that Regulus was asking strange questions. So Voldemort finds Regulus and kills him (with the belief that Regulus hadn't gone to the cave or he would be there waiting to be killed because of the potion). Orion is killed for another reason, maybe protecting his son. Does that make any sense?

Hey guys listen to this! It might be a far-fetched or full of holes, but maybe someone can fill it in or something...

What if Voldemort did not place the horcrux in the basin himself originally? What if someone else was given this task (Regulus?) after LV had setup everything? So whoever had to do this either stole the locket (Regulus) or lost it (someone like Bellatrix or Lucius, who thought they were his most trusted...). Or Regulus could have stolen it from them...

I don't know if Voldemort would leave this for someone else to do, though. Maybe he had extra reasons to trust Regulus's loyalty - Orion as a hostage?

If it were someone like Lucius (ok, slight hole in theory) he didn't realise it was fake? Regulus, as a junior delivery boy, was sent to give it to him, and gave him the fake from the start....

Anyway, I guess I'm trying to say that before it was put in the basin, Regulus had handled it (no-body thought he would realise what it was...) and made the switch.

That way, the defences were broken for the first time when Harry and Dumbledore entered the cave. But, anyway, feel free to just ignore this post as though it never happened, if you want to...

Thats a good idea, but what about the note? It said the person discovered his secret...unless the secret is different.

Wait, that really does make sense Capricorn, as far-fetched as it might sound...

He was given the task of placing the Horcrux in the cave...so he was given the Horcrux by Voldemort or someone else who passed it onto him...it would be like a "supervisory position" or something. So Regulus finds out that its a Horcrux and devises a plan. He leaves the real one at home, takes a fake and places that one in the basin. And the secret would be that it was a Horcrux...I guess...that would, or might, solve the problem why Voldemort (in theory) never went to check on his Horcrux.

But the note is still nagging at me...he knew he was going to die right? (strictly talking about Regulus and this theory). Do you think you can explain the note Capricorn? Or anyone else willing?

And whats wrong with me...I always make a story out of a theory...

crsdba, I'm not sure what about the note it is that bothers you, it could be a few things, so I'll just, for the sake of the discussion, try to explain it in terms of my new theory...


To the Dark Lord, I know I will be dead long before you read this, but I want you to know it was I who discovered your secret .

Ok, so Regulus knew he was about to die, presumably earlier rather than later. The secret would be that the locket was a horcrux. Maybe no-one knew what it was - a D-E speculation point? Like the mafia, you know, just follow orders, don't ask questions to the Big Boss.

Well, all I can think is that Regulus, after failing to do a task properly, was tortured (like Rookwood after the failed prophecy theft effort) and 'on probation'. So he might have known that he was close to being killed, or about to commit another offence that would get him killed. (Voldemort would not know of the switched horcrux).

I have stolen the real horcrux and intend to destroy it as soon as I can.

My opinion is that Regulus died before he could destroy it - hence the locket left behind in Grimmauld Place.

I face death in the hope that when you meet your match you will be mortal once more.

This is where it gets confusing. If he 'faced death' we would presume that it was for stealing the horcrux. But if he was dead 'long before' LV would read it, then his death can't be related to this, seeing as LV still doesn't know...

So I think that he was probably about to get killed anyway, for something that would've come to light after he was entrusted with the horcrux - but something totally unrelated. But it happened sooner than he thought, because he didn't have time to destroy the locket. He might even have died in the cave, or on his way home...

Or wait! The punishment task was to get past the defences and place the horcrux in the basin if he could, or die if he was too weak. If he succeeded, he would go home and destroy the locket, but eventually LV would simply kill him anyway!

Confused? Me too.

Still room for improvement, but I'm starting to like this idea.

So, your theory is that someone switched the locket BEFORE it was placed in the basin? That, in itself, isn't a bad idea. We know that Voldemort did entrust at least one horcrux to Lucious, even though I'm fairly certain Lucious did not know it was a horcrx. Perhaps he entrusted this one to RAB (Regulus) to place in the basin. Regulus had already discovered what Voldemort was up to, so he switched it. Perhaps that's one of the reasons he was killed, he was asking too many questions. Does anyone remember if he actually was able to "leave" the death eaters before they killed him, or did they kill him before he could even change his mind about joining.

I, with Chris, am still confused about the note. It doesn't seem that anyone, after already having switched the locket, would make a special trip back to the cave just to leave a note. It seems like it should have been done at the beginning. So, did he leave the note when he left the locket if, indeed, it was placed in the cave by someone other than Voldemort?

I don't think that Bellatrix would have been entrusted with information about the Horcruxes to "slip" the information to someone else-based on the information you gave, Chris. I think that Voldemort knows that, though she is extremely loyal, she is also to eager to show everyone that she is a favorite. Of course, I'm reading a lot into what Voldemort can determine about his followers, which I just don't know. He may be so intent on his quest, that he's been slacking for quite a while and makes mistakes like that.

I can't remember, was Tom alone when he asked Slughorn about the Horcruxes? Perhaps one of the other students that were there lagged behind and heard some of the discussion. (Maybe they had an invisibility cloak. )

Sorry, I don't know why if I edit something it keeps getting posted twice (?!), but the modified version of what was here is now just after crsdba's post.

Capricorn, about the note:

passerby, an explanation, could be that he had to do it. Like I said, maybe a 'punishment task' for failing to do some other thing. Like Draco had to do when Lucius let the prophecy smash. But since Lucius was in Azkaban, and Regulus, as far as I remember, being the only Black who actually became a D-E, had to do this himself. You know, get past the defenses LV had set up - if he could...

We know LV likes giving these 'punishment tasks', especially if the D-E in question would probably fail in the attempt. Look at Draco Malfoy, he might still have the Dark Lord's wrath unleashed on him, for failing to kill Dumbledore himself.

So seeing as Regulus had to at least feign doing the task, he might as well leave the note there while he was at it. Otherwise, he was just too arrogant to let it go without somehow letting LV know that he, an 18 year old squirt, had found out what the locket really was.

The latter point could be defended to an extent. This is the idea formed in our minds of him already by JK through Sirius's opinion. Regulus might have at last done something right, but who's to say he wasn't still very impressed with himself for figuring it out? As an immature 18 year old, even more so.

And he's not the only character JK has created who is arrogant, but eventually good - Zacharias Smith, while being a wart, was still a DA member, and when push came to shove, it wasn't him who had sneaked. Maybe he was too cowardly, but that can be said of Regulus too.

He had nothing to lose. He knew he was going to die, he might as well get his secret punch in before the end.

Hope it clears up something.

Ahh, Chris, you posted while I was typing. Maybe the horcrux thing wasn't so much a test as a punishment - the guarantee being Orion, as a hostage? I don't think you would advertise the fact that you plan to leave the D-E's. For that Regulus must've been really thick, especially because he was backing out because of their cruelty. I think that the thing LV was going to kill him for, had not yet reached LV when Regulus was entrusted with the horcrux... but being on probation already, Regulus might have known he wouldn't survive long...

Inquisitorial Squad Note:

D'oh...sorry to tell you this...but you double posted Capricorn, or posted the same thing twice...not sure what its called...

But thats probably my fault since I posted something right after you did that had a lot to do with your theory.

Yep, it clears some up!

An assignment geared towards punishment makes sense...as you said, we've seen it before in Draco.

Yeah, sorry, I tried to edit it, but it somehow flopped. Just so I don't post a one-liner on top of that I might just add that I've changed my mind about Orion being a hostage. This would mean that Regulus actually sold his father out, by doing something against LV.

So maybe Orion had already been killed, cicumstances unknown as of yet, though potentially important, but that this could have served as a reminder of what could happen to Regulus if he failed again. LV won't understand that some people could give their life for a cause - he was too obsessed with being able to live himself.

I guess my question is why would Voldemort use getting through his defenses for a Horcrux as a punishment? To test if they work? If that's the case, why didn't he test all of his other Horcrux defenses. . .or are you hinting that he did test them all? I'm just not sure that Voldemort would want to draw attention to his Horcruxes, or point out how to get past them.

True. The punishment theory started out as a bit of a stab in the dark. I don't know, maybe the defences were set up after Regulus had placed the note in the basin with the potion. The rest might have been done later and he was nothing more than a delivery kid, but I'm really starting to sound feeble.

I think this theory could only survive if extra evidence comes to light about how the cave was all set up. As a hunch I like the general idea, but without further knowledge it's a bit doomed, yeah.

There are just too many ifs and buts. What's taking JK so long!

I've always thought of these events in a certain order. Let me know if this makes sense.

1. Regalus finds out some inside information about horcruxes, perhaps not all of the information, but enough to get him to the cave.

Here are some possibilities that I think have merit
- Bellatrix revealed the location and the fact that something important is there in an attempt to show how important she is to Voldemort - we know that she almost revealed a secret to Snape at Spinner's End. Was that Horcrux related?

-Regalus being given a task related to the protection of the cave. He was given the job of bringing inferi to the cave. This way, he didn't need to know that there was a horcrux inside, he just knew that there was something important that needed protection. This would work with Voldemort's untrusting nature/arrogant underestimation of those less powerful. He would give the job to a nobody death eater, thinking that Regalus would never figure out what was in there and how to get it. However, Regalus was smarter than he thought.


2. Voldemort does something to Regalus or asks Regalus to do something for him that he cannot do.

-Perhaps he asked him to do something to Sirius. This would be ironic due to the fact that Sirius had such a low opinion of him

-Perhaps it had to do with Orion. We know that Orion was trying to hide at Grimmauld Place.

3. Regalus figures out the details of the cave and the horcrux

-At this point, he isn't a traitor. He has yet to refuse the order from Voldemort and is acting as if he is working on accomplishing what Voldemort asked him to do. For this reason he isn't hunted.

-He is able to figure out what type of horcrux is in the cave

4. Regalus leaves the death eaters and steals the horcrux.

-He is sucessful in stealing it but cannot destroy it. It lays in hiding at Grimmauld Place.

-He is killed shortly after this.

-We could also say that this is a magical world and Regalus could have simply conjured a fake locket when he knew what the horcrux was. This way he would have simply had to get there once. The inferi don't attack unless you drink or touch the water. If it was Kreacher with him, Regalus could simply order him to drink the potion and to not touch the water. If he did that, the inferi would never even come out. This would give him more time to work.

Remember how it was said that Voldemort didn't show his true colors until the '70's? If it didn't say that, then he was showing his true colors by the time Regulus decided to be a death eater. So why then would he want to join if the Blacks didn't agree with is tactics?

I posted something similar to this in the pre-book 7 discussion...

I think Regulus may have gathered as much information as he could about Tom Riddle and Horcruxes through Slughorn while he was at school. Then joined the death eaters to gain even more. What gave him the goal to destroy the Horcruxes...or at least one...was something that happened to his father, in my opinion. Does any of that make sense? Its kind of a rough sketch of a theory though

Hmmm, I'm not so sure about this. I mean, wouldn't Voldemort have read Regulus's mind when he joined and saw what he was planning. Regulus would have to have been an incredible Occlumens to not let Voldemort know this. So far only (possibly) Snape and I guess Dumbledore can do that, so Regulus as an 18 year old kid...

Don't worry Capricorn, I deleted that second post for you. Don't sweat it, it happens to all of us at some point.

Usually when it happens to me, it's cause I hit 'reply' and nothing happened, so I hit it again, and then two posts pop up. Luckily for me, I've got the connections to get rid of the post before anybody see's it.

For a bit on Regulus,

He wouldn't necessarily have to be an Occlumens to join Voldemort and then destroy the Horcruxes. We've all met Bellatrix Lestrange, and we've seen the kind of people the Black's were, it's possible that Regulus didn't even know exactly what Voldemort wanted to do. Bellatrix would be bragging about the great things the Dark Lord was doing, his parents going on about getting the Mudbloods out of society, etc, and in keeping with the 'perfect little(?) brother', he joins. Actually wanting to be a part.

But then, suppose he gets in, and realizes that it's really organized genocide. Suppose he had wanted to be a part of a political coup, which I think the early years of Vold War 1 were, and now Voldemort changes tactics. He wants to start waging open war on the Ministry, and why not? His people out number them, and the neutrals are too scared to join them.

A little side note, I think that the Death Eaters who are to be summoned with the Mark, the circle that was supposed to come to Voldemort in GoF, was the most inner circle. The most trusted, the Praetorian (sp?) Guard, or Saddam Husseins Republican Guard. The Elite. I can't imagine that those were the only Wizards that he commanded, there must be some sort of 'second rate' Death Eaters, who were marked, but not necessarily called to Voldemorts side with the touch of an Elites mark.

Regulus, joining late in the war and being young, wouldn't be en 'Elite'. He'd be a grunt, and maybe he started getting cold feet when he realized that Voldemort wasn't God like Bellatrix made it seem, he wasn't the political savior of the tainted Ministry like his parents thought, he was a tyrant. He starts to change his mind about his joining up, refuses to do something, and runs. If you run, the Death Eaters will find you sooner or later, and you will die. He knows from Slughorn that Voldemort has Horcruxes, knows from some source the location of one or all the Horcruxes, and decides to try and do something to make up for maybe an atrocity he committed personally, or just feels guilty for having aided and abetted the Death Eaters, but for whatever reason sets out on his quest.

And then there's always the possibility that he joined with the intention of finding and destroying the Horcruxes and Voldemort never even interviewed him. At the height of Vold War 1, surely Voldemort didn't have the time to interview every young person who wanted to join him.

Once you get past the Occlumens question, the rest of Vulturemorts timeline is possible. But I don't think that Slughorn knew for sure if Tom had made horcruxes, or where he hid them. Tom wanted to keep Slughorn on his side, because he could be useful. And you saw how badly Slughorn wanted to keep that memory hidden, I doubt he told little Regulus Black. But there are other ways he could have found out; Bellatrix is a leading candidate.

Thanks about the post, QQS! It's just annoying, but aaanyway...

Ok, yeah, I think at this point, if I had to say how Regulus found out, it'd be Bellatrix. She's just all over the show, so she could easily have let it slip. That's a good point about the 'Praetorian Gaurd'. That could simplify the question of who knew about the horcruxes. In the graveyard Voldemort said to them the thing about their knowing how far he had gone on the road to immortality. So obviously all those present would know. Those who were supposed to be there (Karkaroff, Snape), being in the inner circle, would also know. Hmmm, this could be how Dumbledore found out - Snape.

Here are the questions that bother me most:

How did he know about the cave ?!

How did he get past the defenses without anyone knowing?

Where did all this resolve come from?

Let's say he did join the D-E's with a hidden agenda. Why would he as an 18 year old boy decide to infiltrate the system of the darkest wizard of all time, and risk his life to destroy a part of this wizard's soul (!?) so that he could give whoever a better chance - in the sense that there was now only one part of this most evil wizard to kill. Someone still had to fight him and win.

He also didn't know about the prophecy - what if Voldemort's 'match' never came? It seems a long shot if you look at it like this. Also, his parents and family backed him joining Voldemort's ranks - and not because he tried to bring him down. This would be a neatly planned out suicide mission - he 'faced death'...

I don't think that Regulus would've planned all this. I think he joined the D-E's as a naïve boy (like Malfoy), found out about the horcrux, got the fright of his life and acted impulsively. He was in trouble already, so he had nothing to lose, his dad being killed already and all. In a frenzy he realised that by risking his own life he could help bring this darkest of wizards down. This isn't logic, but the reasoning of a desperate adolescent.

The first two questions are still unanswered, maybe someone has an idea?

Well, my first time posting in here, so it might not be as helpful or logical as other posts, but I'll try...

I think that Regulus is a bit of a minature Sirius, except that his beliefs are different. He was probably a lot like his older brother at Hogwarts. Getting into trouble, taunting others, headstrong. So, like you said, it's not as thought Voldemort talked to every single person who followed him. So, Regulus would want to be in Voldemort's inner circle, and that leads to the idea that he would do almost anything to achieve that power. Following him would be a great example of that. Even though that's being a little disloyal, he still stalked him wherever he went, memorizing his special hiding places and such.

Now, was his father killed by Voldemort and his ranks? Anyway, if he was, Regulus fell into some sort of depression and realized that his idol isn't that great, and vowed to overpower him in anyway he could, like you also said, for revenge.

The defenses? Well, I'm still going with the theory of Regulus just simply...following Voldemort. If this has already been said, sorry for repeating, but could he have died by drinking the potion, and the little basin refills itself, but he lived long enough to change the horcrux, and died in the cave? Or, if you needed another person (again, sorry, but I've only read the sixth book once in the summer...so my memory on it isn't great), he could have just tricked one of the newer members into going there.

One question might be that how could this young boy do all this? As I wrote in the beginning, Regulus seems to me like Sirius. No matter how many times they had arguged, a younger sibling just can't help but look up to their elder and be somewhat amazed by them. Regulus probably picked up the more wild traits from Sirius and could have been born with that personality as well. What I'm trying to say is that if Sirius puts his mind do it, he could do anything, and that's same with Regulus. He doesn't care what he has to do in order to achieve something, and in this case, he gave up his life for Voldemort not to 'take over the world' in memory of his dad.

I know I haven't been in here in forever, but I thought I might start back up. Sorry if I repeat anything anyone has said.