oh my god, that is so absolyutely pathetic!

with that about "negative characters" OH MY GOD!

ive got history books about hitler, that is NOT fiction but im pretty sure hitler is a negative character.

you cant relate to harry potter? RUBBISH! who hasn't had a close relative die, or a close friend, or who hasn't had dificulty in school, who else has trouble with the opposite sex

these people are simply pathetic.



wow that was a good rant haha

I find it rather dumb and hilarious. after all these years they are starting to ban these books. it's funny because there are tons of other contraversial books out there that influence a definete negative impact. harry potter does no such thing. it's taking characters and magic and other histroy too and giving them an adventure and storyline. it's just dumb how people try and find a way to ban books. yes they study magic and do many other things as well but how many books or stories are out there that do that as well. it makes me laugh when i hear of things like this because people are just trying to get their way with things.

Since you brought up HItler, some libraries hold copies of Mein Kampf, and although I don't think this book should be banned either, it just goes to show how absurd it is to ban HP. I don't believe in censoring books, even if they are repugnant as Mein Kampf. I believe in educating people. What frightens me is that when a culture of ignorance and fear is created, democracy is impossible. Then you have book-banning and other acts which display a fundamental lack of confidence in people's abilities to think for themselves. And I think this applies to children as well. While I don't think children need to see things which are overly scary, or violent, or pornographic, I would rather they grew up knowing why these things are not good to have in their heads than making them more interesting by forbidding them.

Honestly, this topic infuriates me. I am seriously going to try very hard to contain myself in this post.

Firstly, children have a right to read what they want. I mean honestly, people look way to far into things. If you happen to not believe that this book is appropriate, then dont read it. How far can people possibly go? I really do not see the Harry Potter books placed anywhere in the Non-fiction shelves in the library. It is listed as fiction, correct me if it is not. People have been running around acting like people are claiming it is real life.

What really gets me is that people believe Harry Potter is a sin to read, and then turn around and read other fantasy books with magic in it as well.

In these books, good conquers evil. Rowling is not writing about how evil Lord Voldemort runs around killing everyone and destroying everything, without the good side.

If people would not try to make a big fuss about it, then there would not be one. People need to understand that it is a fiction story.

Also, why are they not banning Narnia books then? (honestly, i like these books, and dont think they should be banned) but if Harry Potter is banned then why shouldn't they. Some people are taught with their religion that god created one world and one world alone. Is this not interfering with that. There is multiple worlds in that book.

Ughh... I am so mad now. I want to scream. Oh well... And by the way, what the heck is with the Clifford the Big Red Dog thing? Soon they are going to start banning Barney because he is "such a ferocious dinosaur!"

What a load of rubbish!

-HS

That is so dumb. Pathetic isn't even strong enough to describe it. Who would want to ban Harry Potter books? Or Clifford? Who would even want to read Clifford? This is so dumb! If I were in that school, I would read the Harry Potter books (even if I wasn't obsessed with them *blush*) just to make a point! Argh! Why don't they just ban us from the school! Okay, getting too steamed over this. Am going to shut up now... *smoke coming from ears*...
-T-

The people who decide to ban these books generally have never even read them and don't even know what they are talking about. I myself am Catholic and am surrounded by people who say how bad the books are and how immoral they are. I'll ask many of them if they have read them and they say no. I'm not going to lie, before I started reading them I thought they were the dumbest thing ever created. I was ignorant and had no idea. I think back now and I'm just like wow I really was stupid to judge before hand like that. Now I see other people doing that and I realize how stupid I was. So if someone tells you they don't like it and that they never have read it then tell them to read it! Especially the people that have the rights to actually ban it.

That's an interesting take on things, HP Fan Fool! You have this unique perspective I've not heard before. Though, I must admit, I was equally ignorant, until last year. Everyone was insisting I read the series--"It's so good, Darcy, you just have to!" Which, of course, just made me dig in my heels all the harder. Then when I finally read them I was so thrilled to discover them!

I don't understand the people who want the books banned but won't read them because it's "Against their religion." If your beliefs are that strong, would a work of Young Adult fiction be able to damage them? You have to wonder what they are so afraid of!

But then, I think I mentioned that before. I'm starting to repeat myself on this thread!

It's surprising Aethonon actually how many people still want to ban it. Especially Catholics. There are so many that still say "Harry Potter is evil BURN IT" and they don't seem to care that the Pope said that they were OK. It seems to me that most Catholics on most parts listen to the Pope for pretty much everything. e.g the war. And it seems to me that by now they will have read it at least and given it a chance... But I don't know I'm in a way repeating myself!

The only reason that some Catholics want to ban it is because they insist that it is all to do with the accult. It really annoys me when they make these quick judgements, for like you said, they have never read the books. It really gets me mad when they have to act all big and burn the books for they have no idea.

But Oh well, I guess it is their loss!

-HS

True True... I know lots of people like that. It's saddening to be honest. They are missing out on a great thing. I try to get everyone I know to read them because they are AWESOME anyways spread Harry Potter around!

I don't think we can have a "to each their own" attitude with such people. It's a tragedy in the first place when parents won't let their children read HP, but that is their legal right. But banning books from public schools and libraries is absolutely fascist.

I can't help myself from going off-topic here, but doesn't anyone else see what is happening? When the government can listen in on phone calls, arrest people and hold them without charges or trial, and their biggest supporters are trying to ban children's books from public forums... bad things are afoot people. I'm no Quibbler-reading conspiracy theorist. I'm a historian. And this is all too familiar. Anyone else know when we last saw a government create a phantom enemy that had to be defeated by invading the whole world, book-burning, surveillance, people dissapearing without legal cause? Nazi Germany, folks.

Anyway, back to HP-burning. Book burning is nothing to scoff at. It's serious business. These people don't just not want to read HP, which would be fine, or not let their kids read it, which would be tragic but entirely legal- they don't want anyone to read it. And people are listening to them. That's scary.

HP fan fool its refreshing to me to see you give your thoughts other than those people who are just calling these parents stupid. I have been watching the last couple of posts before i have decided to post. this topic is a very sensitive topic for me because I'm a fully devoted nazarene(we're a westland based religon) and for a very long time i was against the books because of one word WITCHCRAFT I caps this because the reason most christians have a problem with the books is because of the that one word. Now that i'm a devoted potterfreak one of my drives in life is not to persaude my fellow christians to accept the books but to understand the agruement of witchcraft.

let me explain. I fully respect a person for not supporting this book because of the witchcraft but, my problem lies in the other books and movies they let their children watch. Many of the parents that feel the books are bad are letting their children watch Narnia, Lord of the rings, and such disney movies as cinderalla sleeping beauty and thats so raven. Here is were the problem lies. why is it ok for a parent to allow their child to watch one form of magic but not others. Its not ok just because Lewis and tolkien are considered to be "christian" authors and disney is deemed to be harmless fun make them all ok? They have the right mindset but their going about it all the wrong way.

I too believe that a quote fits here,"dont judge a book by its cover," Too many people are judging the books from what they have heard. Let me show you some quotes that i have found that are anti HP to show you why many of them take the views that they do.
first one

"Out of the shadows, a hooded figure came crawling across the ground like some stalking beast . . The cloaked figure reached the unicorn lowered its head over the wound in the animal's side and began to drink its blood."-Sorcerer's Stone, 256,
what this site fails to tell the parents that are trying to make an informed decision is that this hooded figure is the bad guy and that drinking the blood of a unicorn or drinking any blood of any creature is not tolerated among the good and respectable wizards in the wizarding world.

"Murder occurs repeatedly. The face then tells Harry that he killed Harry’s father and mother. Then the face commands Quirrell to kill Harry. "KILL HIM! KILL HIM!" (IbId; full caps hers)! A "death spell" is then cast on Harry.
Actual murders of people and animals occur over and over again. In Goblet of fire alone, muggles are "tortured" (589), and their killings are "done for fun" (143). Three wizards are killed (531, 589), and a man and his wife are tortured to the point of insanity (595, 603). Cedric is murdered in front of Harry (638). A child, after killing his father, turns the body into a bone and buries it (690). Each book gets worse than the one before it. "
what the article doesnt tell us that again these torturs and killings are being performed by the evil in the book's servants. also the "child, that kills his father then turns it into a bone and buries it is actually a grown man who has excaped from prison and is one of the evil lords most trusted servants.

. This includes spells, spell-books, curse and bewitchment formulas, magic words, exorcism, wands, robes, cauldrons, flying brooms, and all the rest.
All the animals and creatures, such as elves, goats, banshees, owls, dragons,
Here is one example, which Rowling takes directly from witchcraft books: The “hand of glory" In occult teaching is the "right hand of a murderer severed after death." In Chamber of Secrets (Book 2), Harry finds a hand of glory, "a withered hand on a cushion,” - for sale in a wizard shopping store. Draco wants his father to buy it for him, The shopkeeper explains how it can help its owner steal things: "Best friend of thieves and plunderers! Your son has fine taste, sir:" (Chamber of Secrets, 51-52).
Again another quote taken out of context. they fail to mention that the shop is located in Knockturn ally strip mall in a sense that we have been told in other books that only dark or shifty wizards shop. it also fails to mention that the shopkeeper is talking to one of the most evil characters in the book and his son NOT harry as it is implied.

I could go on and on with quotes from anti HP sites are giving parents. and here is where the problem lies. Parents arent reading the books but relying on what antipotter sites say. Parents are being fed misleading information which are implying something that the books are not. Our anger should not be directed toward the parents trying to make informed decisions on Harry Potter, I appauld them for trying to make the right decisions. Our anger should be directed at the websites that are not representing HP in a fair matter. Our efforts should focus on countering these sites that are misinforming parents.

If you look at their perspective and what their being fed you can see why their so against it. If i based my opinion soley on the quotes ive been reading i might be tempted to join up. the difference is that i read the books. I had to see for my self what these websites were seeing. and after i read the books i realized that they were twisting rowlings words to promote their cause. Any source that has to use manipulation is not a source to trust. and oddly enough isnt this a point that DD makes over and over again in the books? Isnt this a theme in the book? Isnt that what Volde uses to scare and win over his followers, manipulation and lies? Interesting.

so this is getting really long, overall i respect parents that dont want their children reading the books because of the witchcraft factor but i would hope that those parents would at least take the time to make an educated decision do the parenting for themselves and not let a website dictate what they should believe about the books. i also hope that they would let other parents have that same right and let them decide if their children should read the books.

What? Fundamentalists lying to try to prove their point? Say it isn't so! Why, this is just like Karl Rove and the stem cells!

OK...all sarcasm aside...this is fairly common stuff--this need certain groups have to distort the facts. That's why it is so important for people to be able to have access to information, so they can make an educated decision based upon their own observations, instead of the observations of someone else. From what I read, the woman in Georgia was relying on the second-hand information of her pastor. So the point you made, Bethany, is a really important one!

And I'm sorry, but parents who do that are stupid! I'm with mad_madam_mimi absolutely. Banning a book may not seem serious, but restriction of information is often the first sign of a totalitarian society. That's why it's so important not to allow it. All people in Gwinnet County, Georgia, pay taxes to support the schools. So there shouldn't be just one parent who can stand up and attempt to fashion the school library to only contain books she will allow her own children to read.

People should be allowed to believe what they wish to believe, I totally agree with you there, Bethany, and as you said, they also should not be allowed to impose their beliefs on anyone else, unless they want an oligarchy instead of a democracy. Which is, I fear, exactly what the Fundamentalists want. After all, if they have to lie to prove their point, they are most assuredly not in favor of free thought! I may understand where they are coming from, but it doesn't mean they get any brownie points from me. Willful ignorance is willful stupidity. I have a fundie sister--I know wherefrom I speak.

I agree Bethany that alot of the blame lies with the sites and anti-HP organizations. Although alot of the blame lies with the people who don't necessarily even look at sites to see what they should let their children read, they just make decisions on their own based on what they know of the books (which usually isn't much) and say no because there is witchcraft. The problem is they don't see the fact that these books show good conquering evil. They don't see the lessons being learned about life. All they really see is that they are a Witch or Wizard in a Wizardry school so it must be bad. The thing is that they also don't see that the Witchcraft in these books is not the kind of Witchcraft they'd assume there is. The Witchcraft is not vocational in these books. Meaning: They don't summon dark spirits to do their evil bidding. They aren't praising evil. All it is in the books is that they are born magical, which is unlike vocational witchcraft. Anyways this is getting long But overall it tends to be both parties that cause this madness.

Aethonon, i was hoping to get a response from you, isnt that horrible I'll send you the article i found, its unbelievable. Hey i do agree that these parents should be called stupid--in the sense that they are making stupid decisions in not reading the books and trying to force their belief on others. I dont agree to calling them stupid in the sense that so many do just calling them names on here and not expanding their thoughts. when a person makes statements like that it just lowers them to that very level.

HP fan fool, I do disagree with you on parents not letting their children read the books because of the witchcraft. but only the parents that have made the desicon not to read the books after reading the books for themselves. Even with the good in the book and the good vs evil and all the really good life stories and all that, because in all reality some of the witchcraft in the book can be classified as real. Unlike LotR and narnia, the hp world can be very real for some children, JK refers to real places in her books, real london places that kids can see. afterall after the first book came out didnt we have children walking into the barriar on platform 9 3/4's?

Now we all know its fiction and its the parents responsiblity to make parents understand the difference, but see to many, what our biblical scripture says about witchcraft outways any good vs evil story.The scripture that most believers refer to is the following:

[quote] Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. anone who does thes things is detestable to the Lord.[quote] Deuteronomy 18:9-12

If a parent wants to make this religous decision fine and i respect that but where i have the problem is what i stated earilier. All forms of witchcraft should be banned from their homes. not just HP. they should not be singling out just HP but all forms of witchcraft and thats where my problem exists, that too many parents single out HP and allow their children to watch other forms.

Im going to end this i feel a little repetative. Dont forget im all for the books and support them fully. and dont want to leave the our school libraries. Its just i think that the people that are ok with them and those are not need to meet at a happy medium and understand each other in why they think that the other is wrong. does that make sense? i hope so.

It is so stupid. What are they saying that Harry Potter is evil and children shouldn't be taught it in school. Well I was taught Anne Frank in History and I nearly vomited I was so sick or what had happened to them. And we should learn about that? I was in depression all day. Without Harry Potter I would probably be dead by now, and I do mean that. It has given me good things in my life, good emotions. If it wasn't for Harry Potter I wouldn't have half of the brain I have now because that lead me to read. I have learnt words like loqacious, garrulous, and pulchritude from reading. I wouldn't love books if it wasn't Harry Potter. It is an inspiration. And it has been scientifically proven that the days the books are released, children who get knocked down by vehicles decrease. I have been wanting to learn about Harry Potter all year and all we have done is a film review and a news paper. Pathetic.

I think its easy to get very passionate about something like this, but in reality, the section of people who go as far as banning the HP books and/or burning them is very small - certainly in comparison to those who read and enjoy the books.

Making excuses for people because of their ignorance is counter-productive. But there will always be people who do not look any further than what they want to believe.

I still cant really see your point there bethany. Reading the HP books does not mean that you are either performing or condoning any of these activites. I guess it all comes down to perspective, but if this whole issue is kept in perspective then surely the HP books are seen as childrens stories, not folklore.

Bethany, thanks for making so easy for me to read the article. I read almost all of it, but it got so ridiculous as it went on I just couldn't finish it. Whoever wrote this twaddle thought up every nasty thing he could think of to make the books seem evil, but this, to me, is most telling:

"There was no need for Rowling to go to such lengths to so heavily saturate the books with spiritist lore. The only reason I can think of as to why she would do this is because she has made a contract with the devil. Rowling has done her part and Satan is doing his part,-and an avalanche of book sales have made her the richest author In the world."

Jealous, anyone?

Never mind that nearly everything he's used as evidence of evil plot has been taken out of context. I can see your high annoyance, now that you've read the books, at how many things are WRONG with this article! But the parents who blindly place their trust in this article (and the others) will never know, they will just assume.

James, I'm glad that HP was there for you! I think it can teach a lot of young people who feel stuck in an abusive situation that it won't always be that way--that someday they can make themselves free of it.

Bethany, would it be possible to post a link to that article here?

EDIT: Razz, I wonder if, when we are great-grandparents, they will be considered folklore? I think so.

I would actually like to go up to the people who want to ban Harry Potter and ask them why they would want to when they haven't even read the books. Never judge a books by its cover. Just because you assume it is to do with evil, doesn't mean it is. It is to do with GOOD vs EVIL. And that is not insulting or wrong. It is life. How are we to do with Satan by simply liking and reading a book? It is ridiculus. I love God. I wouldn't do anything that is to do with Satan intentionally. And I am pretty sure Harry Potter helps people and is good to people rather than send us all to hell. Sheesh. What will be next? Not allowed to read Nursury Rhymes because they are to do with magic? Honestly.

After reading through this thread, which was time consuming, Ya'll have a lot to say. We are all talkers it seems. The JK's books were in fact not banned. The woman in Georgia, I actually feel bad for her, well honestly I feel bad for anyone who has not read the series, is a bit backward we all agree. Someone in an early post mentioned the TV show W.I.T.C.H. the five girls in the show are not really witches, that is their initials. The do have magical powers, they each can fly when they morph into their butterfly look, and each except for Will, I think, have elemental powers. Example one can control-make appear out of nowhere-water. I am sure somewhere someone is against this show. I mean somewhere someone is against kicking a pebble into a river cause it might disrupt the delicate balance of nature.

Getting worked up over these things might make you a bit crazy. Georgia mom, forgot her name, did her thing, failed, and it is over. Even if there is an appeal it will not work to her favor. So now she is a mother of four and exhausted. What else could put a smile on your face.

We, human's, are creative, violent, aggravating, captivating, destructive, and we all have this one gift deep inside our hearts, hope. We wish, we dream, we try, we win. This is what Harry Potter is about. This is why he is so loved. My suggestion is not to come at this with anger but pity. Look at what this woman is missing out on.

Out of this whole thread only one thing made my eyes pop out and my heart ache. Two people said they thought about suicide at one time in their life. I hope, there is that word again, that these two people are long over those kind of thoughts.

Life is so precious, the 9/11 massacre was mentioned in this thread, people sometimes forget the big things when squabbling about the little things, but it still manages to pop up. So many bad things have happened in the world, the bitter battle good against evil is going on in the real world. It is nothing short of wonderful to be alive, there are no words to describe the evil that wishes to take that right away from others.

When I first started reading this thread, I told myself I was not going to make a comment, cause, wow, I like most people have an opinion on everything. There was more in this thread, as it is nearing book length itself, that I could and wanted to comment upon, but I want to keep this semi short so people can quickly read it and say RAB, your a nut...

All,

I agree with RAB that something like this should not be met with anger but pity. The people behind trying to ban Harry Potter are the same ones that tried it with Lord of the Rings, Dungeons and Dragons, and Marilyn Manson . I have to say that I do feel a great deal of frustration when I read or hear about people that haven't the imagination to simply accept that there are people out there who want to read, write and/or talk about things that don't exist in real life (or haven't been proven to exist... yet) . I try not to let that frustration get the best of me when I interact with such people. I simply avoid those kinds of topics when I'm talking to them, or (if I feel like arguing) I'll ask them to try and convince me that their opinion is correct and mine is wrong-o .

The thing that gets me most irritated is when people drag religion into the discussion as if God has it out for J.K. Rowling and Harry Potter and everything else that requires an imagination to enjoy. These people are not wrong to have religious values. Though I'm not very religious myslef I don't really have a problem with those who are (except the ones who have the "Holier Than Thou" thing going on). My problem lies with using quotes from the Bible to defend the banning of books, music, role-playing games, movies, etc. The Bible was written a long time ago, people; long before any of those things. The concept of those things I named probably had never entered anyone's mind back then. That doesn't mean the Bible is bogus or anything, though. Not by a longshot. There are things in the Bible that are what I call "words to live by." One of my favorites is the golden rule. You see, it's possible to have religious values AND enjoy things like Harry Potter at the same time. All you have to do is be able to extract the parts of the Bible that are appropriate for the day and age and not focus so much on stuff that really doesn't mean anything anymore.

Besides, it's not as if J.K. Rowling acknowledged the existence of wizards when she wrote her books. She did what Tolkien did: she created a world and people and creatures to fill it. The world she created just happened to be very VERY similar to our world. The quote from that article about her making a deal with the devil... Puh-leeez! I hope the authorities were quick to administer a unrinalysis after that nonsense, that's all I'm saying about that.

The point is these people, these rabble-rousers that are, like a couple of you guys have stated, "judging a book by its cover" are laughable and deserve (marginally) your pity, not your ire. Go easy on 'em. Be cool .

Z-Factor

sure i can aethonon, the link im posting is a link that is just one of the sights that parents are using to make an informed decision. I'm posting a link directly to the article that i pulled quotes from.but if you do explore this sight theres very interesting things all around it. I dont mind sights that are anti Harry, many of them are unbiased and just show the book; both sides without really forming an opinion.but there are a few out there like this one that uses quotes from the book and people to twist just a little to be able to use it the way they need it to look. anyway. heres the link:
harrypottermagic

so that is the link but its very easy to find these sites. just google anti-potter websites and youll see all the hits you get.

Yes. You are totally right RAB. But I think what infuriates me and many others is that just because ONE person didn't like the books, she wanted to spoil it for everyone else, and that is not on. That is what made me mad. But yeah you are right. She is missing out, and she must be deluded.

I have to admit to snorting my Diet Coke all over the keyboard when I read that.

Yeah, right...

Well, this contract with the devil she's taken out...I'm wondering if there are clauses in there that allow her to make huge donations to charity or to champion causes such as raising awareness of multiple sclerosis or the Children's High Level Group? I wonder how "Satan" would treat such acts of charity? Mmm...maybe he'll sue...

Yeah, pity is definitely the thing we should be feeling.

The thing is that I have a perfectly live and let live type attitude, generally speaking. It just ticks me off when fundamentalists start ramming their opinions down my throat and trying to force their beliefs on me.

But let's not forget that she failed. A victory for common sense. Amen to that.

hey michelle, yah pretty much did the same thing when i was reading all the articles on this site. i could not believe all the hatred that came from this particular site. It jus didnt make sense to me. Why so much hatred? This is why i pity parents that have made a misinformed decision on the HP debate. But i also challenge them to read the books for themselves and make their decision on what they read from the books; not from a website. I may tell them how i feel and why i support the books and love the books but when it comes right down to it they need to do their own research.

I just can't pity these people, sorry. People like this, people who are frightened of devils under the bed, and books, are just plain dangerous. It is people like this that create totalitarian states, because they believe only their point-of-view matters. That was what mad_madam_mimi was talking about. This is no different than my Fundie sister who voted for Bush because her Christian radio station said America would burn in Hell if he wasn't elected.

We've already got one nation that won't allow HP books. How far will it go? How far are these people willing to carry this on? How easy will it be to brainwash the masses? I tell you, it's a lot easier to do if information contrary to the popular view is removed from public access!

Yesterday I wanted to pull all my hair out, pack my bags, and go live in Antarctica in a tent where I could die of hunger and cold.

And it's thanks to these dangerous people who have absolutely no perspective on themselves within the world they live in. Can you believe that there were theology students who protested against the newly founded Gay and Lesbian Society on campus? Their reason? It's against Christian values, so it's sin, and it's not part of Afrikaans culture. You know, I just didn't know who I was for a moment. What?!

(And note - I am not saying anything about whether they are right or wrong in their opinion - it just doesn't matter, that's not the point).

I am convinced within my soul that it is evil to take someone's freedom away. If these people could just be more like Dumbledore! He has the incredible ability to accept individuals and groups of people no matter who and what they are, and grant them their freedom of choice, speech, association - and yet retain his own set of values for which he eventually gave his life.

It sounds extreme to say they're evil and dangerous, but they are. It's just that time and place is against them - it was right for Julius Caesar, Mussolini, Stalin, Mary Tudor, and that's the only difference. We've all seen Mrs Whatsername is slightly mad (she's proven that a few times over) - give her the power of life and death over people and see how it turns out.

Nah, I can't handle people who still think that there is only one perspective. It's positively medieval! I detest it, I always will and I'll die upon it at the stake if I have to. Like Wendoline the Weird of course

*chuckles* Yeah, this crazy world we're living in makes me think about becoming a hermit more and more every day too... Though I'm not sure I fancy the whole starving to death thing...

I agree with Darcy about these people potentially being very dangerous, but as Laurette said, the climate was right for people such as Hitler and Mussolini to plant their seeds of hatred and intolerance. The world was a very different place then and for such people to ever have an influence today would require an extremely malleable and naive populace. I'm not saying that there aren't such people out there, because obviously there are, but I think it's probably fairly safe to say that the number of sane, rational people far outweigh them.

The only thing we can do when issues like this crop up are to stand firm and never allow such brainwashed automatons to ever dictate to us how to live our lives. Obviously, school boards are on the side of rationality, so that's a very good start. We just need to make sure that people never forget what the word 'freedom' actually means - freedom of choice too. Millions have died over the years to protect that freedom and I don't think we should ever be allowed to forget that sacrifice by letting fundamentalists ever get their way.

Does anyone else see the irony here ?

J.K. Rowling is writing a series of books about an evil overlord, who tries to enslave the wizarding universe and force all of its inhabitants to follow his way of thinking. He is trying to purify the world to nothing but "pure-bloods," effectively weeding out any people that are not of the 'caliber' that he deems worthy of wizarding society...

In this little series of hers , she has a half-blood, normal boy, who is not anywhere near what the evil overlord (Voldemort) would want as an inhabitant of his "ideal" society, defeating the overlord time after time after time.

So, in the end, good triumphs over evil . Oh, yeah. I can see how those values are completely anti-christian . Nutters.

In the famous words of Tom Symkowski from 'Office Space': What the hell is wrong with you people?!?

By the way, I was just kidding with the whole "Does anyone else see the irony here?" part... I'm sure everyone noticed all this a long time ago... I just like to point it out.

Well, if we are all going to go to hell for reading a book then atleast I will see you all there. Where in the Bible does it say, YOU SHALL GO TO HELL FOR READING A BOOK ABOUT WIZARDS!! It is so silly, if people opened their eyes and looked at the joy of what the Harry Potter series has done for us. This forum. Right now, I would be bored out of my mind and probably throwing things about I was so bored, but because of this, I am not bored, and I have a chance to express my feelings and get away from the world. I hope next time people try banning Harry Potter, I suggest they read them first so they have evidence to why they should ban them.

hey james no it doesnt specificlly say "YOU SHALL GO TO HELL FOR READING A BOOK ABOUT WIZARDS!" but it does say not to dwell or stay away from witchcraft, sorercery, or divination. and if you believe and want to follow that, thats fine with me. but a person crosses that line when they try to force that belief on others. I wanted to say that again because though i play both sides of this arguement because each side does have intellegent things to say, and i respect some of the opinions of the anti-HP. I just want to make sure I'm clear that I dont condone book banning, book burning, or book sensorship. I fully support HP and i'm a huge fan. sometimes i can sound like i'm supporting the anti crowd and i dont. i dont support the anti's i respect them....at least some of them. the ones that have an intellegent agruement and dont manipulate like the website i linked in earlier posts. so i just wanted to make that clear.

I would actually like to see the more intelligent arguments, out of curiosity. The only things I've read about Harry Potter being Satanic or evil have been the real cookoos. There's no point in arguing with people like that, since they don't have a reasoned argument to begin with. It 's scary. I'm presuming the more intelligent websites merely propose that people don't read the books, not that they should be banned. Although I think that is still stupid, I also think people have a right to their stupidity. They just don't have a right to enforce their stupidity on the rest of the world.


Indeed, Aethonon. As I said, there is no problem with Christians making a reasoned argument for or against the books as Christian reading. They can even do so without having read the books. They have a right to their chosen ignorance. What is frightening and dangerous is when such people then propose, and seek to make legal, banning and burning books.

Fear of ideas, no matter how repulsive (or benign in the case of HP), indicates a fear of reason and critical thinking. If you believe that people cannot read bad things without becoming bad themselves, if you believe that people cannot make decisions for themselves as to what they can read, you are essentially disbelieving in their agency, their ability to run their own lives. The inevitable manifestation of this belief is fascism. I think any thinking person can see that there is a movement towards fascism happening now in North America, and the people who want HP banned are a part of this movement.

As Bertrand Russell says:
from the Columbia Encyclopedia on-line

School districts shouldn't decide what kids read at home. It's a kids choice if they want to read Harry Potter or Narnia. A library or some old person shouldn't decide what we choose to do. I have a friend who chooses not to read Harry Potter because of the witchcraft involved. The library didn't say he couldn't read it. He chose not to.

It is completely ridiculous that the government is making our decisions for us.

Well, it looks like the saga continues. HBP is among the list of books a California school district is considering removing from their elementary school libraries.

QUOTE

Those three books, plus the Harry Potter and two of the Artemis Fowl books, were among the 23 that were removed by the board Feb. 16 from a list of 68 that had been recommended by a parent-teacher committee for the Vista San Gabriel Elementary School library.

Trustees said one rejected book contained an unsavory hero who was a bad role model for children; another was about a warlock, which they said was inappropriate; and others were books with which they were unfamiliar and didn't know whether they promoted good character or conflicted with textbooks.

Admittedly, HBP probably isn't suitable for the average elementary school student (ages 5-14). At least they aren't removing the other books from the series.

You can read the entire article here.

It isnt really a big shock to me that harry potter has been band from schools because it was band from my school and i was sent home for having a harry potter book at school...the school went as far as baning the merchandise from school (the school was a christian school and thought harry potter was evil)

but i do find it rather amusing that some schools ban harry potter for being a bad influance when they keep storys like little red riding hood which is about a murderus transvestike wolf who preys on little girls in the wood...or goldylocks and the three bears where its ok to break and enter into someones house use all their stuff and eat their food.

Umm yess that makes complete sense...

They Ban a Book because of "Negative" Role Models, well What the... It is a Fantasy book ofcourse there is going to be badies or to they want everyone parties and Voldemort Hugged Harry...? Because there HAS to be baddies in a Story or there is no plot i mean no plot. There has to be a baddy and a goody to save the day... yes and a goody to save the day.

But yes they didnt mention the "Negative" role model and i think that it is good to have Negative role models

And Lozza-Cm if they let me home early because i had a book What the... You are alolowed to read they encourage it right. So If they encourage it then why not ban a book. And also i would complain if they Banned Harry Potter books from School

I tried to go back to the beginning of this thread to see which school district actually went ahead with a ban of the books, does anyone know? (note to self do not move there when having children) Anywho, the whole thing about the current pope and the head of exorcisms saying the HP will lead down to the path of the devil is really only their opinion. They are extremely important people, but as we know no amount of book burning is going to stop people from thinking for themselves. We all need to stand up for what we believe in, starting in our own back yards. Don't let your schools ban books! Be active!

On another topic, I used to work for a publisher, and a few school districts didn't like our books because we had some different ideas in them as well (most of the stories were folk tales), so it just goes to show that people can be narrow minded about everything.

ttfn

That's appalling to me too, sending a child home for having a BOOK!? I don't think being a Christian school should be considered an excuse either. What sort of an idea of Christianity exists where people nod their heads and say "of course" when a school is being intolerant and abusive to students, because they call themselves Christian? If I were Christian, I would be very offended to be lumped in with that kind of school. And I really do think singling a student out based on the fictional literature they choose to read is abusive.

Oh.My.God.

What they won't say next. I lost brain cells by reading it. People must be really stupid. I mean, pu-lease, if anyone actually gave these books a chance, they would see the morals. Good books can teach us loyalty, friendship, patience, confidence in ourselves, and that experiencing emotions is a normal, healthy, human part of life. And, most importantly, that being true to yourself and others through love can overcome a bad situation thrown at you. Harry Potter can teach you these things. That sounds pretty moral to me.

The fantasy part is simply a clever and imaginative way to grap someone's interest. It is very easy to teach a child the difference between reality and fiction. If they think kids can't do that, than adults have lost faith in the child and is really insulting us in a way. Just pathetic.

Children reading is a great thing. Please, all you people out there, don't discourage them by depriving them of a great chance to use their imagination. Nothing compares to the imagination of a child.

So concludes Mistress of Magic's rant. I really rambled on on this one, but it makes me sooo mad.

P.S. Clifford and Disney characters are horrible now?

all the arguments you guys are making i agree with 100 percent and my friends went as far to start a student/teacher debate in the school hall at lunch about the topic. but teachers having all the power still band it anyway. but us children (who mainly went there for a private education not because we where christian) took it on our own hands and we took in all the harry potter stuff we had..books,folders, my friend drew a lighting bolt on his head and my other friend coverd the bible in harry potter book contact...and when the teacher told him it was an evil book he opend it coughed and read...the book of jocob chapter 10 verse 3....." the whole lot of us (about 30 or so) got put in the school gym and yelled at by the teachers...they couldn't send us home as there was to many of us....

i left that school and now they are having the same problem with other kids as they have banned

buffy
harry potter
lord of the rings
superman
the winx club

and more but i dont want to bore you all to tears.

Apparently the Pope is now adding his 2¢ to the debate. And here I thought Free Speech was one of the foundations that America was built on. And encouraging children to read was a GOOD thing.


All this makes me glad of two things: I'm not a parent having to fight for my children's right to read, and I'm not a Christian!

And here's another "concerned parent" out to educate the public to the "evils" of Harry Potter. Again, it doesn't mention anywhere in the article that she's ever read the books.

QUOTE

She has a list of Harry Potter scenes she dislikes, including the cutting of the hand of a living person for a ritual, possible demon possession, astral projection or travel, and casting spells, all found in "The Goblet of Fire."

Appold’s objections are threefold – that younger children can’t distinguish fantasy from reality, that these scenes are harmful to children and that the books encourage children to practice witchcraft.

She backs up her claims. For example, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics website, children 2- to 7-years-old have difficulty separating fantasy from reality. The website also states that two themes are the most terrifying to teenagers – sexual assault and stories about the supernatural and occult.

Sexual assault?? What books is she talking about?

If they're gonna ban HP books, they'd better get rid of the Bibles too. The alleged "Good Book" features, murder, incest, war, ritual sacrifice, drunkenness, child abandonment, prosititution, natural disasters, pestilence, famine, racism, divination and prophecy, talking serpents, demon posession, rape and sexual assault, homosexuality, patricide, giants, ghosts, and enough fantasy material to float a fandom for a millennium or two.

Really, if kids cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality, they shouldn't be able to read about women being made from the rib of a man, or a great flood, or a bet between God and the devil over a poor sap named Job, or four horsemen sweeping down upon the earth, etc. etc. etc. According to these same people who want to ban HP, the material in the Bible, Torah, Book of Mormon and the Koran, among others, needs to be kept from kids and teens too.

ok l new to this.. but been reading the post here and agree why ban a book because it fantasy.. were l live.. ( the united states 0.. most the children here. love the hary potter movies and books.. and l hear that the kid are learning .. but it not just reading.. but if you what to learn . you have to work for it,, and mostly what parent agree on.. Harry potter is teaching the kids.. that knowing and understand the fact of life.. you have to face you fear and understand what your facing. think what trying to say is " facing you fear without know what it is. is worst the facing it without understand it "

Well, it doesn't surprise me that a school board in California banned books with which they were "unfamiliar." Wow, I haven't read it, so therefore no one else must? Doh. Some people have brains the size of pinheads.

Just as long as these 'responsible adults' realize that in banning a book, they make kids even more determined to read it. They'll find a way, and then the kids will realize it isn't at all what these people make it out to be.

Oh, and Guin, I had to laugh when you joked about making notes not to move anyplace that bans HP when you have kids!

Harrysbestgirl12? The woman from Georgia lost her first bid to ban the books, at the local olevel, then she took it to the county level and lost, now she claimed she would take it to the state level...and she has not read them.

Here I am again - can't seem to stay away.

I'm pretty puzzled. Didn't Pope John Paul II say Harry Potter is ok? However, I'm not a Catholic, so I won't go into what I don't understand well enough.

What I do know is that Christians (read people in general) act very stupid when they feel threatened. I can understand that these people feel that their faith is being threatened, in the sense that I know how it feels to have it threatened, but not by Harry Potter books! Narrow mindedness.

I'm not ashamed of being a Christian because others are silly in the name of Christianity. If I were to have issues with that, I'd have to handle all the baggage Christianity has accumulated since the Crusades. I can't, so I simply have to shrug it off. It pains me that people would want to speak for me, and then go about being prats, but there's nothing I can do.

Anyway, these people cannot call themselves American (and believers in freedom and democracy) if they act like this. That's not on, because it's double standards. You cry freedom when you want to defend your faith, but you won't grant parents and kids the freedom to choose what they read? How absurd is that?

Well exactly Aethonon, it is human nature isn't it. It is stupid though. I dislike it very much when people don't understand something or they have never thought about it or give it a chance think it is wrong and bad. Bah humbug to them all. If they have read the books and got evidence to why they thought it was wrong, then fair do's, but come on. They haven't even give it a chance. I wish I was more like Janice Dickenson and then I could tell those people where to put their 'statements'.

JPII didn't see anything wrong with HP. The new Pope, Pious somethingorother I think, has spoken against them. He's much more conservative than his predecessor.

Censorship is the true American way, unfortunately. The Constitution says the government can't censor us, so we spend a lot of time trying to do it to each other.

ETA: it's Pope Benedict, not Pious. I'm not Catholic, obviously.

i just wish these "responsible adults" would take a look and see all the good harry potter is doing...most of the people i know never even read a book all the way through untill they read harry potter...it encourages children to read aswell as teaching them the morals that are all through the books.
i would be willing to bet my whole harry potter collection that these "responsible adults" havent even read the books....and i dont see how they can call them selves Adults let alone responsible ones...they are acting like spoilt little kids in a play ground at school, just because they dont have the intelegance to grasp what the book is really about they label the books evil.
and they cant hide behind their religion either...i am christian, well atleast i believe in god and jesus! bu t i dont go preaching to everyone about it...and no where in the bible does it say...children should be encouraged not to read fantasy books. i am thinking along the same lines as Cassiopeia and the good book everything that is in the harry potter books is right there in the bible.

That is so stupid! I mean, if they want characters to be positive rather than negative, yet they want to have books people can relate to...they must be mad! I mean, real life isn't always hunky-dory, it's not totally perfect! What do they think they're playing at?