Aren't they both Lestranges? I know Rodolphus is...so it wouldn't make a lot fo sense for him to put RAB unless he did it with Bellatrix, which is highly unlikely. Rabastian....oh, my brain is mushy...I thought he was a Lestrange-tell me if I'm wrong. He's not on the BFT so he must be...

I noticed the multiple Regulus's too, but I don't think it could be the old one. He would've been alive way before Voldemort had come to power, and therefore wouldn't have amde any horcruxes. So I think he's kind of useless for us.

Good point about Regulus and his father dying the same year. Maybe Regulus wanted his daddy to go with him in the cave. But I don't know why Orion would do that since Sirius said both of his parents were into Voldemort and stuff. But it's interesting they died the same year.

im wondering because i may have missed something, but do you have to die in the cave to be the one who jumped out of the water to save the horcrux, i was under the impression that it was just the closest inferi at the time.


OK GUYS I HAVE A THeORY FOR THE 'A'
tell me what you think.

Now someone mentioned in the other thread that the only black whose second name was there was Phinneas Niggleus, well Regulus had an uncle alphard who got blasted off the tree, so if reguluss middle name was alphard after that unlce maybe thats why he doesnt have a middle name, because it was after a "no good" uncle?

peace

Well, that preety much shuts my mouth on everything, isnt it?? Now I can't talk about Snape or what happened that night when DD died or why Snape killed DD or how can some one make the switch after DD's death etc. But that doesnt mean we have to talk about translations!! I have a question which I think is seriously needed to be answered? What do you people think about the incident where the translators admitted that they dont know who RAB is and said that they just did it by consulting among themselves (for the ones who dont know about it; there was an incident where the translators were actually asked about it and they gave that answer. Long before in this thread there was a member named Tatesha who showed us the link to this interview, I think it's somewhere in V5)

Sorry for the small post but illuminetti, you can post your comments on all that in the thread "Dumbledore's Last Night" or something like that, its one of the pinned ones.

Not at all Illy, but just keep RAB in mind, that's all

Yes, I think it was version 5 - I bowed out when it all got a little heated in the end with the pro and anti Regulus brigades firing a number of nasty curses at eachother.

However, I for one am happy to discuss translations as long as posters maintain a sense of proportion - Okay, the Black/Zwarts team will certainly use it to strengthen their case but remember, RAZ could still be someone else who we have not come across yet!

(Anyone caught using the Imperius curse to change other people's minds will be reported to the dementors!)

Well I think quite a lot! The story of the locket has to be put in context because the next book will not be called "RAB and his revenge on Voldemort" - it's about Harry Potter. Ultimately, the locket and RAB are only going to affect a small portion of the next book because Harry still has several other horcruxes and Voldemort himself to destroy. We're only interested in RAB because s/he may have destroyed a horcrux, which in turn will aid Harry - we wouldn't care otherwise!

Here's a question for you LilyP: I just can't buy that it's Snape but if it is, why do you think LV knows him as RAB?

not weak at all, i just misunderstood you, now if you dont mind id like to tweak the theory abit. Now the original potion was designed to slowly kill you, and then make you a inferi, so when (ill say orion for now) drank the potion to get the locket, he drank it all scooped up the locket and it was kreacher with him, he was in alot of pain, and told kreacher to go get reg, so kreacher poofed out of there, and went and told reg everything, reg was already contemplating leaving vl at the time, decided to make a new potion, that makes you (idont know well say relive your worst memory) and brought a fake locket and wrote the note, but by the time he and kreacheer got there, orion had already died, and somehow fell in the lake while holding the horcrux. but reg had put the fake in the basin and filled the potion into it too before, checking to see where the real horcrux was, (he may have thought his dad escaped), so he leaves, and then years later haryy and dd go there and when harry accios the horcrux, orion the inferi jumps up to keep hold of the horcrux.

illuminetti

please dont start... you can state anything you want if you want to, and noone said you had to discuss the translations, i was responding to kirkstan, and yes you can respond to what i say to other people, but could you give us something relevant to what we are talking about, not a complaint.... please i really dont want a repeat of the last thread, lets put that behind us, you and me, and start off on a new plane.

and the translators can not just talk between themselves to decide who rab is because if they didnt get it right then the books are ruined, im not saying they know, but the translations have MUCH RELEVANCE because if they dont know then jk translated it herself just that part. Im not saying it is regulus, i think that, but whoever it is has those initials in all the languages, how many people have that


lilly

can you tell me where dd says lv wanted to check on his horcruxes please?

LILLY ill see you there too... dont forget little hp6

Right, thats what I meant. The Horcrux was already out of the basin, in theory, and was on an inferi (possiby Orion).

I was thinking that the potion recorded whoever was there, because if the potion turns someone into an inferi, Voldemort wouldn't really have to go through all the trouble of finding that specific inferi and take the locket. He would just have to listen to what the potion revealed...but how would he go about doing this? How did the basin fill back up again with the potion?

Heres my scenario: Regulus and Orion get into the cave. Orion drinks the potion and manages to swipe the locket...but he dies very slowly all the while Regulus doesn't know what to do and is freaking out (ie, what the Dumbledore said in the cave while drinking the potion...Regulus must have loved his father very much to ask to die in his place). He returns to Grimmauld Place. While he is there, Voldemort goes back to the cave...perhaps he really does sense his Horcruxes...and sees Orion who has become an inferi because of the potion. He's enraged, somebody has found out about his Horcruxes and nearly got the best of him. To add to the defenses already, he keeps the Horcrux locket on Orion and dumps the inferi Orion into the lake and replaces the potion. He leaves the cave.

[Regulus could have taken his sweet time...as in days...]

Meanwhile, back at Grimmauld Place, Regulus finds a locket and writes the notes. He places the note in the locket and goes back to the cave to find his father and the Horcrux gone already and the potion filled up in the basin once again. He might have figured that Voldemort had already come and did his doings...so he puts the fake in the basin and leaves. Being the death eater he is, Voldemort questions him first...since he found a Black in his cave and figured he'd begin asking other Blacks what he was doing there. Voldemort reads his mind and finds out what happened and subsequently kills Regulus and doesn't have to ask or make someone from the Black house tell him about the cave.

The final trick being for whoever went to the cave after this would have to drink the potion again, actually get the locket and realize it was fake, then have to battle inferi to get the real...but as we know...Dumbledore and Harry didn't get the real...so thats an added bonus...Harry will have to go back to the cave a second time and live through the terror (that is if he realizes that the locket is still in the cave).

HOWEVER

What Dumbledore said didn't fit my theory...oh well...

hmm good question, maybe by the time he got there orion had already died, but reg thought he escaped somehow, so him wanting to get away from voldemort, just put that in as a smack in the face, but your right it is unlikely

yeh this is a tough but interesting topic

peace

Why is it so hard for you to understand something which is a true fact?? And I dont understand why this thing still exists. The RAB-RAZ subject was brought long ago. Then Tatesha gave strong evedence that this subjet has nothing to put into consideration, end of story. If anyone had told me that JKR said Snape isnt RAB I would've forgotten about the whole thing and carry on with another subject. Because if I really have got that kind of evedence I would've understood with my common sense that there is no reason to carry on with it. I wouldnt have been difficult for me at all to accept a hard truth; then why is it so difficult for you??

Lilly_p,
You and vulturemort and HP6 can go to that thread and be happy but I am not!! So cross my name out of that list.

It is not difficult for me to understand a true fact, the fact is: "the translators said themselves that they dont know who rab is" correct?
well as you know theres usually more than one fact
Fact 2: they can lie
Fact 3: they can not choose to put who they assume rab to be in the book
Fact 4:THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT, in the book that JK ROWLING wrote the initlials or code for RAB is consistent in every language with A blacks inititials, can you deny this? it is a fact and it is canon
meaning it must be true because it was in the books, im not saying it proves rab is regulus, i believe it tells us this, thats just how i read the clues, but by putting it in the book, jk says that she approves it, meaning that RAB is the same as RAZ, now your fact is that "the translators said that they dont know who RAB is" but they can not!!! choose for themselves how to translate it, because jk let it in the book, yes teher are mistakes in the book, but somthing of this magnitude would need a recall because this is HUGE in the next book.
why cant you accept the hard truth that the translators, whether they know or not, atleast had some knowledge to what initials they must put, JK may have told them, she could have translated that part herself, but in noway did the translators take the liberty of doing it themselves, unless they were right, because if they were wrong it wouold never had been printed unless your saying that jk doesnt take the time to make sure all major flaws do not happpen?

not sure i understand why, but i will miss your thoughts...



OZ

couldnt people take his dissapearence as his murder


Idiocy

if you sign for more than one person than why the 'I'


lilly

umm i believe, just my thought that regulus stays the same it is just the surname changing in this instance, haha so has any of your thoery changed then, or are you just considering it a possiblity, becasue if your theory has changed id love to hear the revised version, i do like your theories,



that interview does lead us towards regulus, but she could be talking about other theories too, could she not?

peace

I agree, but I think it was someone taking credit for what someone before him/her had done...as in...Orion took the locket and died, then Regulus wrote the note and signed it...but thats my opinion...(I can go into detail about it, but I thought I did in another post )

yes i was trying to explain why i dont think its more than one persons name ex: ROB ADAM BOB, because if you sign it for three people you dont want all the credit so why say i, i agree with the orion regulus theory, posted that a while ago, in agreeance(??) with your post.


peace guys and gals

The translations are very important. As this is a subject dealing with RAB, we need to discuss all subjects about RAB, whether you want o or not. Obviously, the last name was changed to fit in every edition. Why doesn't someone find someone who just got a Spanish edition and see if the name corresponds in that one? Does anyone know of anyone who owns a Spanish edition?

I don't remember DD ever saying that, but I don't see why Voldemort would need to check on something like that. That thing is pretty well protected. He probably didn't think anyone could get through there. Especially someone like Regulus.

I am going to have to disagree with anyone who thinks that the locket is on an Inferi. I know the Inferi are supposed to protect it, but I just don't think that would happen. Plus, if the potion was supposed to make all the people who have come in there into Inferi, why are there so many Inferi? Have that many people come in? No, I think Voldemort placed all those specific Inferi in there, and really didn't intend for anyone else to become one. Plus, DD got out and he's not an Inferi, so...

<-----off topic----->

Ok, as a prefect, I am going to warn you guys now that the Mods can easily come in here and shut this down if you get to hyped up in here. That is why this new thread was started to hopefully split up the topics and create less tension. There is really no need to get sensitive about this stuff. Please disagree in a more friendly manner. And that goes for everyone, not just the person that I took those quotes from. If you have any questions or problems, Contact a Prefect or a Mod.
<-----off topic----->

hp6

I agree with you here on the fact that the note was written by one person. If it were intended to be written by more than one, it would've said we. That's why I think that Regulus went on there on his own accord and brought his dad along for support. Even though that's abit odd since Orion supported Voldemort.

Oh yeah, and incase anyone didn't tell you, Godric Gryffindor, Orion is Regulus's dad. Sirius's as well.

My thoughts are as follows. I believe Rgulus and Orion went to the cave, and Regulus asked his father to come with him. Orion naturally came, because he would support his son. (Course I could go against myself right now saying that he didn't really support Sirius, but...) I think Orion drank the Potion, but they both got out safe. Orion was weakened to a great amount. They went back to #12 and Regulus stashed the locket with the horcrux.

Regulus, upon seeing what happened to his father, got scared and wanted to back out of being a DE. Voldemort didn't like that, so he ordered Regulus's death. Orion may have stuck up for his son in protest, and therefore he was killed as well. Voldemort never knew they had gone to the cave, but killed them because they wanted to back out. as Sirius states in book five, "It's either a lifetime of service or death."

Basically, in a nutshell, Regulus and his dad Orion went, retrieved the horcrux, it is now at #12, Regulus was scared by his dad's state, backed out, was sentenced to death, Orion tried to save him, so he was killed too. And it doesn't make sense that Regulus is still alive when the tree says he isn't. And the tree is most likely magical and updates itself. I don't think he is the brutal faced guy, because if Voldemort tried to kill him, he would definitely be dead. Harry is the only one to survive that. So it's not plausible for him to still be living.

well if he wanted to bring down vl from the inside why did he say 'ill be dead long before you read this' and 'when you meet you match' this sounds like he doesnt think he can destroy vl, unless you meant he was trying to sabotage him, but how many traitors can vl have as de's?



Droobles

extremely powerful magical objects can be fooled, the goblet of fire for instance, but maybe regulus never backed out, because thats what sirius heard,after azkaban, maybe he never left voldemort, but had dissapeared from the magical community, and a story crooped up abotu how he died? not that i beleive this,

peace

F2- yeah thats right!! They can do things as brave and as powerfull as going straight to JKR's home and ask her who RAB is but they cannot tell the truth in a talk show!!

I think thk thats exactly what they said and did!!

I didnt fully get what you meant by that!! But if you are saying that the "B" of RAB is changed in every language then you are wrong. Only example of that kind of change is in dutch (RAZ) and in another language (RAS). If you think that this is wrong then give me the examples in all the language.

Anyway, now I am going to show some problems that Regulus-theory has:

1. First of all the biggest reason: Its too obvious.

2. Secondly and most rediculusly, nobody has ever, upto this point actually shown any kind of proof that there is an "A" in the initials of Regulus Black's name. Although I saw some people using initials like "Arctus" and other things like that without any kind of base in their information.........No no no, dont show me any website where you may find these kind of things; I dont believe in websites-searching. Show me one place anywhere in the 6 books where we can actually see an "A" in Regulus Black's name. Then I will be satisfied.

3. Thirdly, why would a person write his own real name in abriviation??

4. Fourthly, if Regulus has to be RAB he had to make the switch at a very tender age + he had to be very skillfull at that age which is very unlikely.

5. If that theory has to work then it also means that VL didnt check his own precious horcrux for over 15-odd years which is extremely unlikely.

6. (This logic is only visible only to my eyes, so its not important to take this one seriously.) The whole theory comes from some very very weak reasonings. First of all RAB said that he will be dead before VL gets the note. It doesnt necessarily mean he is already dead. Secondly, RAB claims that he found out about the secret and took the horcrux. It doesnt necessarily mean that he made the switch in the cave. Thirdly, RAB claims that the intends to destroy the horcrux as soon as possible. That also doesnt necessaily mean that the horcrux is destroyed. So you see, this whole theory is based on some constant possibilities which seems like constant but actually isnt constant!!!! That to me is the biggest weakness of this RAB=Regulus Black theory.

In defense of whom ever suggested that regulas was not dead look at Peter Petigrew. Every one thought that he was dead, even the Ministry thought so. There are ways to fake your death, even in the magical world. As we know Regulas was highly regarded by mother Black. I am almost positive that it wouldnt have been any trouble for him to go to her portrait and say " mother i need the Black Family Tree to say that i am dead, make up some lie as to why he needed to be "dead" and have her tell him how to do it. I can imagine her saying "sure anything for my loyal Regulas."

To add to those, Voldemort never thought...maybe...that an underaged wizard would ever be there. So we can also think that a squib, or muggle could have been dismissed as possibilities by Voldemort. As for Regulus, he was 18, so that meant he was of age...concerning the defenses, what if he read a book or something He could have sat there for a long time trying to figure out how to get in...

I think that Voldemort had sensed his Horcrux being messed with. Thats why I mentioned before that he showed up when Orion swiped and Regulus went home to write the note. Also, I don't think he has checked on any since his "rebirth" or even his initia defeat because something messed up his senses. Like he lost that sense when he got his new body or something...so the only one he could sense being tampered with was the locket in 1979 (assuming thats when it happened since Regulus was killed that year).

what i was trying to say was that vl doesnt have that many de's so how many can be traitors, but it wasnt really that thought over, by myself and made nosense.

JTD

ill have to disagree here:

Goblet of Fire pg. 279"merican Edition

"Because they hoodwinked a very powerful magical object..."
"It would have taken an exceptionally strong confundus charm to bamboozle that Goblet into forgetting that only three schoos compete in the tournament."--Barty Crouch Jr. a.k.a. Mad-eye Moody.

the fact that sirius says hes dead proves nothing, but the fact that sirius assumes him dead, he found out about it after escaping from azkaban, and like i said before, if reg was still alive and in hiding, then his disappearence couldve invented a story for itself.



illuminetti

what do you mean it didnt happen in every language? what the translations in EVERY language means is that EVERY languages translations of RAB match regulus's first and last initial, in your language, does the translation of RAB match regulus's first and last initial?

not sure i got your point here? please enlighten me-- thank you

well if thats what they did then RAB is not cannon, making any book containing RAB, not jk's complete work, because if they did it theirselves, it can be wrong. Jk would have to check this before print, meaning that even if they did it themselves, jk checked it to make it right, meaning that RAB matches Regulus in the every Language.

You just proved my point, only in dutch and, the other language is, RAB, switched to RAS/RAZ, and in ONLY these two languages is the last name black changed, to "Svarts" and "Zwarts" which then corresponds with, RAZ/RAS... see it?

if it is so obvious, how come so many dont see it?

Melissa asked, "Is there more we should ask about him?" Rowling replied, "There are things you will deduce on further reading, I think--well you two definitely will, for sure--that, yeah, I was really hoping that R.A.B. would come out." As is Rowling's normal policy in such interviews, this did not confirm or deny that R.A.B. had been identified. that is what rowling said.

right back at you: where in the books does it say that Regulus Black does NOT have a middle name?

people do that all the time, do they not?

why so unlikely, he has 5 others and to him, no one knows about his horcruxes, and his defenses are so strong, why should he need to check?

cleary, i have no idea what you are trying to prove here????

kirk

WAY TO GO


peace

It's not too obvious. It was in a complete different book. We all just grew brains throughout the series and now we are thinking more, remembering more facts. Maybe she wanted it to be right there in front of our faces. She gave us a history about Regulus through Sirius for a reason.

Nonody has found a certain on Regulus's name. It was all just guessing. Some think that it could've been Arcturus because sometimes people get their middle names from their uncles or whatever. Nobody has evidence. It's all theory, my friend. That's why we are in here discussing it.

As opposed to what? Drawing a picture of himself? If it was Regulus, he would been in his teens, and he probably knew no other way to sign.
Which brings me to your next point. Sirius said he was stupid. That may be just because he was his brother. Maybe he was stupid but skillfull. Look at Malfoy. He's pretty stupid, but he's also pretty capable. And again, it is possible Regulus may have had some help with him.

Well, I'm not going to copy that whole thing, but you'll know what I'm referring to. I understand a lot of what you are saying in this last thing. Maybe some of them will be true. In particualr, the one that the horcrux has not been destroyed. Course I only think that because I think that horcrux is sitting right inside 12 Grimmauld place. Or perhaps Aberforth has it now...

my_erised

One problem with this erised....Regulus's mother died after he did. Six years after to be exact. (Going by the tree) She would not have had a portrait if she was still alive, therefore, she could not go to it and go *POOF!* you're dead. Plus, a person in a portrait couldn't do that anyway because the tree was a tapestry.

Capricorn
The more I think on it, the more I don't think that Orion went to the cave with Regulus. He and Walburga both thought that Voldemort had the right ideas, but they got cold feet when he went about doing what he did to get power. If they were freaked by that, why on earth would he suddenly go in a cave, against Voldemort, who he full well could come and kill him? Perhaps he knew Regulus was going to do it, Regulus did, tried to back out of Voldemort after trying to corrupt him, Voldemort got mad, killed him, father tried to protect and save, Father went down too. I think Orion was killed sometime after Regulus got out of the cave.

Sorry hp6, you posted right over me, so...

Okay that's a good point....But I stated my case above.

The date on the family tree suggests that Regulus would've faked his death BEFORE Sirius wen to Azkaban. Regulus's death is recorded in 1979. The Potters were blown up in 1981. Pettigrew went to go get Sirius and blame him for the Potter's death, therefore making Sirius's Azkaban stay AFTER Regulus's supposed death.