The school has been around longer than Dumbledore has, though. Would all the enchantments on the school be from his magic? I don't doubt that some of them are, but not all of them...perhaps more permanent ones were established? Who could have removed the spell from Harry (isn't it 'finite' (the magic to get a curse off someone?))? He saw Dumbledore go off the ramparts, and I don't think anyone else knew Harry was there (unless it was something that happened behind the scenes at some point for them to figure out he was there), except for Snape (but in that case, he would have had to have known ahead of time, because legilemncy and occlumency require eye contact and they didn't have any). Correct me if I'm wrong on any of that



Do you mean, since you used the cruciatus curse as an example, that Dumbledore managed to keep him there...for lack of a better word...against his will...and then at the right time he let him go?

dd is dead i cried and i hate to admit it but he is dead and snape killed him most likly on dd's orders and we can't hate snape for that 'cause we have different reasons for that like he is a greasy hooked nose prat

well its a good idea, but this only works if dd died before he was out of sight, if he died hitting the ground malfoy wouldnt have seen this, and this also only works if we are told whether or not draco can see threstals, so all in all good thought, but in my opinion not reasonable evidence.

El Barto
i remember reading somthing on this ill see if i can find it and get back to this later.

Albus
i think because the freezing charm was a weak spell that would most likely wear off eventually, such as some of fred and georges products, like there invisible hats, the spell was broken with his death, since the enchantments on the castle and such are meant to be permanent and not wear off, i believe they would not break because of death. i dotn know if htat makes sense?

El Barto
from jk's website, FAQ link, 3rd skull down...

-"Harry didnt see his parents die, he was only in his cot at the time"
-"Harry had passed out before Quirrel died and was only told by dumbledore"
-"Why couldnt he see threstals on his trip back to the train station? Well i did not want to start a new mystery, that would not be resolved for a long time... I decided, therefore, that until harry is over the first shock, and really feels what death means... he would not be able to see threstals."

there is more to the answer but thats the basics.

the spell being lifted when dumbledore fell off the tower is kind of proof for me. i dont think that the last thing goiing through dumbledores mind when he died would have been" oh my, i left the freezing charm on harry. i have to lift it"
dumbledore is dead
plus remember when fawkes "lamented". that was the pheonexes way of mourning dumbledores deat. thay are very powerfull and smart creatures. i dont think that he would have left dumbledore. ever, if he was still alive. i think that he is really dead

i wont jump to the Conclusion that Dumbledore is dead.." i m new by the way so hey"....as i was i saying...there are many factors when ya playing around with magic....so Dumbledore could verywell be alive...what if the potion he drank had some side effects....[u] know....what if snape did do the curse right and dumbledore is sorta of faking his death.....i don't think the greatest wizard will go down like that...
i am sure w lll see if in this book 7...so yea

rememebr i think it was in the aslan book on a table where aslan was slain but was still alive...like he died for someone...what if there was some greater magic thta if [u] die for someone with reason...then [u] some how come back ...(not evil magic but good magic)

i duno theres lots of stuff...there just ideas...i sure there have probably been talked about [b4] //o well

-hailfire

MOD EDIT:Hi there hailfire, welcome to the forums Could you refrain from using netspeaks here? Please refer to Ygraine's post below. Thanks.

hi there zHailfire! Welcome to Veritaseum!

Can i just ask you to have a read of the rules (Link in my signature) Netspeak isn't actually allowed on these forums (B4 Should have been before, u should have been you) It's just not everyone here can understand netspeak properly and it makes your post harder to understand.

Cheers

I was re-reading HBP when I found the conversation that made it sound like Dumbledores death was set up. It was just after when Ron was poisoned by the bottle of mead...
It was a conversation with Hagrid..

"Its no wonder Dumbledores angry with snape." Hagrid stopped, the familiar guilty expression on what was visible of his face above his tangled black beard.
"What," said Harry quickly "Dumbledores angry with Snape?"
"I never said that," said Hagrid though his look of panic could not have been a bigger giveaway "look at the time, It's gettin near midnight and I..."
"Hagrid, why is dumbledore angry with snape?"
"Shhh..." said hagrid "do you want me to lose me job? Mind i dont suppose youd care now youve given up care of mag..
" Dont try and make me feel guilty, it wont work... now whats Snape done?"
"I dunno Harry, I shouldnt of heard it at all...I, well I was comin outta the forest the other evening and I heard them talkin, well argu'in...well i didnt wanna draw attention to myself so i sorta skulked and tried not to listen But it was a...well a heated discussion and it wasnt easy to block it out...
"Well" Harry urged him as Hagrid shuffled his feat uncomfortably.
"Well I just heard Snape sayin he[dumbledore] took too much for granted and that maybe he Snape didnt wanna do it anymore"
"Do what?"
"I dunno what Harry...it sounded like Snape was feeling a bit overworked thats all...anyway Dumbledore told him flat out he had agreed to do it and thats all there was to it...pretty firm with him and then he said somat about Snape making investigations in his house,Slytherin...well there is nothing strange about that" said Hagrid quickly "all the heads of houses were asked to look into that necklace buissness..."

I believe this is pretty close to the conversation that went on between Harry, Hagrid and Hermione... This happened a few chapters after the argument between Snape and Malfoy...
i believe it might be interpreted to mean that Dumbledore knew of the unbreakable vow and had made Snape promise to kill him in the end and help Draco.... i think Dumbledore knew he had to die in the end so made sure that Snape would understand he had to do it in order to save malfoy's life... also, I believe that anyone who is close to Harry, adultwise, dies because Harry has to kill Voldemort on his own without others protecting him... for this reason i believe people like dumbledore had to die and that people like remus and hagrid might die also......

These are just theories and i hope they havent been said too often....

wow, CAPS LOCK, i just read your theory, maybe harry could hop on a threstral and ride past malfoy or something like that and then based on the reaction of malfoy, harry can deduce whether malfoy can see the threstrals!!

well, first off, im not exactly sure if dumbledore is dead or not.. i think both ways are possible.. i know that dumbledore himself says something like "i trust you know that no spell can bring people back from the dead" to harry, so thats one point of view.. but also, jk doesnt just throw random things into her books, every detail usually means something, and the first potion that slughorn introduces to the students in HBP is the draught of living death, which could possibly mean that dumbledore just appears to be dead and really isnt.. also, i noticed at the funeral, flames erupted around his body, and we know dumbledore and fawkes are extremely close, and phoenixes burst into flames before theyre reborn, so does that mean anything?

one more thing i have quick, hottiegirl took the words right out of my mouth, that conversation that they have with hagrid freaked me out when i was re-reading the book, knowing what happens at the end

I don´t believe Dumbledore will be alive. He is dead, but that doens´t mean he won´t be active tot help Harry. He appeared in the painting in his office, so he can communicate with Harry. About the horcrux. I think it is hidden somewher at Hogwarts. Therefor Dumbledore had to be removed. Voldemort has tried it several ways to get rid of dumbledore, or to get acces in Hogwarts. First he wants to become teacher, he sends Umbridge to get rid of Dumbledore and finally he sents Draco (and Snape) to ´remove´him. It seems that Voldemort himself can+t get to the school somehow.

well its a good idea, but this only works if dd died before he was out of sight, if he died hitting the ground malfoy wouldnt have seen this, and this also only works if we are told whether or not draco can see threstals, so all in all good thought, but in my opinion not reasonable evidence. also malfoy is a death eater he has probally seen death by now, and harryd have to find him first.

[b]


There is more to Headmaster/Professor Dumbledore than meets the eye !!!

He is ALIVE, I just feel it. AND he will help Harry destroy the remainning Horcruxes AND

Fawkes will also assist Harry, as he did in the past. After all, Harry & Fawkes belong

together. Just as Ginny & Harry do & Hermione & Ron do !!!

One thing i'm confused about is snape agread to make a unbreakable vow to kill dd is malfoy dident and it seammed like he didnt want to do it so I think he had to kill dd or he would loose his cover so i think he had to kill him but he still is kinda a spy for the order.

I have that feeling as well...I'm sure he is alive..One of the greatest wizard of all time can not die that way...he must be their to help harry. Honestly harry is not that great of a Wizard and someone like Dumbledore has to be there to guide him on..

yes if dd is alive snape is not, and reversed, but if dd is dead, then how can snape still spy for the order, none of them will trust him.

Maybe, there is someway to counter the Unbreakable Vow. Remember theres like a whole book of different spells, so you never know if it could be done.

wouldnt countering the unbreakable vow be a contradiction in terms? im not saying it cant be done, because i dont know, but i dont think rowling would name something unbreakable, if there was a way around it.

Yeah, the mention of the painting of Dumbledore in the Headmaster's Office pretty much sealed the deal for me. He's dead, Jim.

However, something a bit more interesting I recognized reading HBP again was Dumbledore's seemingly incoherent mutterings while he was drinking the potion in the cave. They seem to have a certain pertinence to Snape; more specifically to what I can only guess was his character in one of two situations. First, it could be something along the lines of what Dumbledore's "ironclad" reason for trusting Snape was. Hypothetically, it could also have been Snape's reaction to the possible scenario of Dumbledore ordering Snape to murder DD. Just a playful extrapolation of a possibly overlooked clue.

that clue of what dumbledore's seeing is overlooked by a lot of people, and i could never really understand why.. i think its going to have some kind of important meaning in book 7... and as much as id like to believe dumbledore is alive, (and btw, there are some things that lead one to believe he is) i just dont think that he is, but he would be extremely helpful through his painting.. the only problem with that is what if hogwarts doesnt open again, how will harry get to the headmaster's office?

i cant seem to find the quote, but i remember reading jk say something like, the paintings arent the person, they cant think, they just say certain advice, that they would give, she considered it to be like catch phrases... if thats the case i dont see how that will help harry.

Wow I cant believe I missed this huge point in the series! Its been such a fundamental part of the books that when we actually talked about it with Dumbledor , I paid almost no attention. Dumbledore said it himself, just after he and Harry visited the memory from which Tom had returned to hogwarts to request a teaching post. What Dumbledore said was that Tom Riddle cursed the post of DADA when he was refused. So it is safe to assume that Dumbledore knows fully well that every year he will need a new teacher to fill the post. So what I am getting at is... Dumbledore could have easily had Slughorn fill in for DADA since he knew it was cursed anyway (yes i know he teaches potions but im sure he would have sufficed, better than umbridge anyway). But Dumbledore didnt, he gave the cursed post to the one who has wanted it so long, Severus Snape. So my theory is that Dumbledore did indeed plan on having severus "kill" him upon the consummation of the year. This way, he could spare Slughorn leaving, and kill two birds with one stone... snape pretends his loyalty to Voldemort and fulfills the curse of the DADA post... This is substantial proof for me that Dumbledore has had it planned all along.

Interesting...but the thing is I don't think the curse can make people do things, it makes things happen to people.
or maybe there is no curse. look at it this way:

quirrel was helping voldemort, he would have probably died anyway

lockheart was a liar and he boasted about being able to dark creatures, so naturally the staff expected him to kill the basilisk. he was a coward, then tried to put a memory charm on two twelve year old boys. And was just a lousy person. for example if he was teaching herbology,he still would have been lying about his ability to kill dark creatures, so the staff would still ask him to kill the basilisk, he would still have tried to curse the boys, and everything else that happened that night would still have happened

lupin was a werewolf. if he was teaching transfiguration, do you think parents would be any happier with him teaching their students? and he would still have gotten involved with everything that happened that night, and still forgot his anti-wolf potion, and still turned into a werewolf!

moody, I admit did have some pretty bad luck.

umbridge, well even before she was dada teacher, she sent dementors after harry. she was a b**** and it had nothing to do with a curse

snape had nothing bad happen to him. he just made a choice, and it may have been right, maybe it was wrong, we don't know yet. but it was a choice.

this may sound like I am putting down other theories but I am just stating the facts as I see them

i have thought of this but i am not sure that this completely proves the plan, he may have had other reasons for giving snape the job, he may have wanted to give snape the job for one year and then say he needed him back at his potions post because sluggy was leaving. but there is definitly a curse on the job, if dd says there is there is.

maybe. but I still don't beleive in that kind of curse. basically all of those people made poor choices or something that made bad things happen.
look at it this way.

all the other teachers have been there for a long time. maybe it's hard to find good teachers on short notice. McGonnagal is a good teacher, so she stays. and maybe it was easier to find good teachers back when all of those ones were hired.aftere quirrel left, they just couldn't find any good teachers. lupin was good, and it wasn't the job's fault that he is a werewolf, was it? all I'm saying is that a curse couldn't make lockhart be a liar and a lousy guy, and it couldn't make umnbridge be a horrible woman. maybe some of it is just karma, pure and simple. you do something bad, something bad happens to you. as for moody, he never was the dada teacher. he never actually taught. so he wouldn't be able to have a curse on him any way. he was just part of an elaborate scheme to resurrect voldemort.

does anyone understand what I'm saying ?(by the way, maybe the care of magical creatures teacher is cursed? professor kettleburn retired with severe injurys, even missing limbs. hagrid was attacked by the ministry in fifth book, had his house set on fire, I think in book 6, and had his hippogriff almost executed in book three.)just a thought

i understand what you are saying but Dumbledore definately blames TOm Riddle for the lack of being able to keep a DADA... he specifaclly says the Job is cursed ..... as for how the curse works... of course the curse didnt cause Lupin to be a werewolf and Lockheart to be a liar and a fool but I think the curse brings out the worst in everyone so no matter who you are or what you have done or will do.... you will end up losing your job by the end of the year. Its a curse.... they just work like that

id agree with this, if dd says its curesed it is, im not sure how it works but id think that it would use your weaknesses against you, or it could just mean that no matter what somthing will go wrong, like murphy's law or something.

ok i think R.A.B. is Regulus Araminta Black Which is Sirius Blacks Younger Brother who was a Death Eater but then started to rebel against Voldemort and then Voldemort Said he was going to kill Regulus and so Regulus switched the Lockets before Voldemort can even notice and that caused Dumbledore to be weak and not beable to fight back against Snape so he died and Harry and Dumbledore went through all of that trouble for nothing.

Ok, many of you won't like this. I know you won't. Sit down. Take a deep breath. I know you don't want to hear this, but it must be said, because I didn't say it.

There has been theories since book 6 ended that dumbledore is still alive, all sorts of theories, and reasons why. Well, JK has finally made a statement on the subject.



Ready?



This is from HPANA. It is paraphrased. I await the quick quotes quill version.



you can read about it here.

I never believed that dumbledore was alive myself, but I know what it is like to have a theory you like so much be shot down. I'm sorry. Really.

Fish

I just theard the news..... I really have lost all hope for Book Seven. There is now no way i can sit through the sixth movie, because I will be honest I got tearied eyed from the text,, but with music and film, i will lose it im sure. Im not even excited for the Seventh book... i feel liek ive lost him all over again. Why would she dthis now, I could have dealt with it from the book, but not before... omg i really cant believe she did this.... im nearly an adult and I am acting like this.......The biggest theory i blieve out there, she squashes just like that.....

Book Seven better be verry good or she will lose a fan

What can I say? I told you...and now look what happens...you get all emotional

...I'm jest messing

I know...in the wrong discussion, but the whole thing about Dumbledore leaving notes behind with a pen name as 'RAB' can still be possible. What if its like Back to the Future? He goes to the past...or even the future...and tells his brother or someone else he trusts to give the letter (s) to Harry when he arrives, and he would know that he would arrive at a specific location because he had already seen it when he went forward. Alright, never mind on that specific scenario (a bit of a long shot, what with however many turns on the time turner it would take, and if there are any left). But still, Dumbledore could have at some point, left another letter behind...(I lost my train of thought, sorry).

So...what else is there to talk about?

-the potion
-Inferi
-basin
-other characters present or who we think were present (weren't supposed to be there, etc.)
-the locket (s)
-the school
-other deaths
-other activity that night
-the cabinets
-and a host of other things

Anybody have a theory about any of those or something else? Or just wants to talk about his (Dumbledore's) last night?

And thank you Savingharry for posting that

Alas dumbledore is truly gone from the earth, but not necessarily the books, i believe that although dead his presence will still be felt, now lets all take a moment of silience to remember our fallen leader... no joke, lets really do it. **slience**.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok it just occured to me how pointless that moment of silence was, not because it isnt reverent, but because we all will read this at different times so its really a moments of silences... or somthing.

I had my moment of silence when I finished reading the Half-Blood Prince I liked all the theories, though, about how Dumbledore could still be alive. So, can we assume that:

-the phoenix Harry thought he saw after the fire engulfed Dumbledore's tomb was just a trick of the flames or smoke, and Harry made it out to be a phoenix because it is associated with Dumbledore?

-that trickle of blood from his mouth was from the fall off the tower or a result of the potion he drank?

-He is dead, but it doesn't necessarily mean Snape's AK did it...could've been the fall right? (For the record, I say Snape's AK curse killed him but in my opinion the jury is out as to why he seemed to hover before falling off the tower).

-Did Rosmerta play a more prominent part than we know?

-what of the other Death Eaters?

And other questions...all to help discussion or thinking of course, they don't have to be answered!

Well some may think Im crazy but, and foolish..... but JK Rowling, as far as I understand, just "qaushed the far-fetched rumors that he was still alive and hiding"... but does this rule out the possibility that he returns by the power of a phoenix. This would make him dead, very dead, but somehow some way he could ressurect himself. Like I said, this would mean that DUmbledore would have been killed and this would explain his body igniting into flames at his funeral. I just want to pick apart her words and keep some sort of theory going, just for the sake of it.

I don't think the phoenix can bring people back from the dead...can they? Unless you mean his animagus is a phoenix and he died, then later, like a phoenix, he burst into flames and flew away when he was reborn. This would mean he is, in a way, immortal and thus not living (because are you living if you can't be killed? You're not dead either, you're something else..at least thats how I take it, see the last two links in my signiture ).

For another thing, (remember, I believe Dumbledore is gone), but if you want to pick apart her words you're better off keeping them together...



-he could just be alive and not hiding

OR

-hiding and not alive

Basically, it says he's not alive AND hiding, but he could be alive (without hiding).
I mean, she could have meant that its not a rumor but a truth and was discounting it as a rumor but truth without revealing it. But, I doubt it...since its over-analyzing the quote, and she said it flat out (not in a secretive way)...among other things that I can't think of right now

i think that was just dd's way of saying goodbye, he wanted to go out in a spectacular way, you know with a grannd finale.

probally just for the effect, but if it needs a reason, id sya the fall.
yeh im not sure why he hovered, like vulturemort used to say, it was probally just the way jk wanted to get him on the ground so the story would flow.

what kind of role are we talking abut

honestly i dont think dd would want to be immortal, its not his style, because remember that to the well organized mind death is but the next great adventure...

Ive been pondering and wondering why Dumbledore was afloat after he got hit, was it a sign that he will always be around or something?

i like the idea, i just dont understand it, how could it be a sign that he will always be around? i thought it was more of a clue to show snapes innocence, but that theory has been proven wrong.

I wouldn't say that snape being innocent has been "proven wrong." I do think, however, that snape being innocent now seems unlikely (see the snape thread for an explanation). On the "afloat" thing, though, I think JK was just trying to be poetic. She was trying to paint a picture with words (like she does so well) of Dumbledore being picked up off of his feet, his dead body being trown, and falling, almost in slow motion, over the side and down to the ground. Just picture it in your mind. A sad, sad image. I think that's what she was going for.

fish

I guess Snape's innocence can't be proved either way (even if one side leans more towards the other) until we're finally told or we read it for ourselves There, of course, might be more evidence pointing certain things that may show that he is guilty or innocent...

I think you guys are right about the flow of the story, as Vulturemort put it. If Dumbledore remained on the tower, Harry may have stayed longer to try and revive Dumbledore...and may have missed out on trying to apprehend Snape and learn that he's the Half-Blood Prince...as well as helping Hagrid put out the fire, maybe even other Order members would have been attacked since he took down a few (the brutal-faced one, Amycus, Alecto, and Fenrir...or he at least managed a spell or two on one of them). Would Zacharias Smith had joined in the fight and gotten killed if he had stayed? So, yes, I think it was to flow with the story as well

Ok.. I have been given a days time to mourn over seemingly losing Dumbledore again... but now I'm back... and better than ever. I have read the updated posts at www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com and I have been given new hope. Please to under stand my post, you must read the New Conclusions section of the said site.

First of all, we must look at the pressure JKR was under. We cannot for an instance think that she did not premeditate and plan her responses for key inquiries about the series. If we were to fall prey to such naive thinking then I wouldn't call our selves "HP Sleuths". Anyway, the pressure she was under when that little boy asked about Dumbledore was quite immense. What was she to do. Lie? Tell the Truth? NO Comment? Lieing, I believe is against her morals, Telling the truth is always a possibly but come on people, this is one of the biggest theories after the sixth book was published, and a No comment is just as good as saying he is still alive. So I believe she had a pre-planned response, one that was quite cryptic and in no way denounces all theories of a return from Dumbledore. Yes I will admit, it does place a damper on most theories... but someone saying he "is definitely dead" does not ruin all of my theories. When people tell me "Dumbledore is dead, stop theorizing" I tell them I know he is dead, but will return somehow. A character can die, and it can be very sa, and he would be dead. But a return of some sort would not change the truth of "Dumbledore is definitely dead".

Now as for the "Don't expect him to pull a Gandalf" When I first read that, i hadnt read the definitely dead part, and my heart leapt for a moment.. Her saying Don't expect him to pull a Gandalf meant that he would pull something. Lets think to Gandalf for a moment, he battles the Balrog upon Zirik-Zigul and "dies" for what feels like an eternity, but in fact was instantaneous in our time. He returns and resumes his post of battling for the One Ring and plays a huge role in the shaping of end of the Third Age. Now if Dumbledore wont pull a Gandalf, then maybe he will resurrect himself, Phoenix-Style... JKR's latest quote shouldn't over shadow all of the allusions to the phoenix as portrayed by Dumbledore.... I believe he will come back and work in secrecy to help Harry... how i will not know, but it wont be a huge part... possibly under the penname of RAB. So Harry goes through the series and does everything alone, but Dumbledore is there in the end to see Harry succeed.

Another possibility is that Dumbledore doesn't pull a Gandalf, but pulls a Christ. An interview JKR had a while she was commenting on the religious themes in the book... JKR said that if one could find the underlying religious connotations then one would figure out the series. She than continues on to say "well Dumbledore is Jesus Christ of course" This as many know, is way out of context from what was being talked about in the interview. This leads me to believe that Dumbledore will resurrect himself, again Phoenix style, help out, but then die again, perhaps by walking through the veil voluntarily. This would be symbolic of Christs Death, resurrection and eventual ascent into Heaven. Whether or not this will come to pass I will not know, but it will be fruitful to have thought about.


All I'm trying to say is it is quite unbelievable that JKR would "quash" all of our hopes of a return, because if she wants us to feel the inevitability of Death then she should have let our hopes go up then come crashing down in the Seventh Book... this would be more realistic. I think she is trying to please everyone, without giving too much info. What she said could be interpreted many ways and I choose to pick the road less traveled and continue to hope that Dumbledore will make a return.

yes id have to agree, it was a tool to help the reader understand, and to help the story progress, instead of harry having to climb all the way back up the tower, he finds dd at the bottom.

yup yup.

oh i hope dd will make a return, but i dont believe he will. not pulling a gandalf, and definitly dead pretty much spell out that he will not be alive in book 7.

Yup i think Dumbledore is definitely done.He is not going to be revived or anything like that.I wonder if it was possible for him to be revived in some way by Fawkes even though i know he will not return.

Dumbledore isn’t pulling a Gandalf, translates into…he’s pulling something, just not what Gandalf did? Rowling saying he’s definitely dead means there is still a chance?

The definition of definitely is (from dictionary.com): Indisputable; certain

Gandalf came back from death, so perhaps what she meant when she said that was that he isn’t coming back from death.

But, you’re entitled to your own opinion Albus Dumbledore.

Now, Dumbledore as Christ:
Would it be just his death or his entire life (including interactions with people, his demeanor, etc.) that we’re comparing? I must admit that there are a lot of similarities. But one can attach the same sort of similarities to Harry, or Hermione, or Neville, or even Mrs. Norris. Its all how we percieve it (basically attaching a religious connotation to anything). I’ll go into that later when my mind is clear, its kind of racing at the moment…not enough sleep I guess. What do you think Albus Dumbledore, hp6, and all?

Maybe this thread would interest you too, link

well first off i do not understand how dd is christ, it completely contradicts her statement on he will not come back, unless she means it in a different sense, maybe she was just saying that dd is god, but i doubt that. yeh i think that dd is forever gone from this earth in physical form, and spiritual form, as in a ghost, but i still believe his presence will be felt.

Yes even though JKR says he is "definately dead' i still find it hard to throw away all of the evidence I have compiled to say otherwise. I guess for now I will just be settled in thinking that he planned his Death with Severus and now he left us in the care of the Order, and with someone who is very powerful and wise. Severus Snape.

For the record, I will not truly believe that was the last we will see of Dumbledore until the Seventh book is released.... just as a precaution.... and because I dont want to believe it.

i agree that we will see dd again i am not sure it will be him alive, or dead, but i think that maybe in the penesive or the portrait or choco frog cards. i think that dd will definitly have a role to play.

Here's my theory of why Dumbledoor let himself die.

Remember Tom Riddle's diary? Remember how it tried to possess Ginny and come back alive?

We know already how that happened but we have no reason to believe that Voldamort would not continue planning this with the other horcruxes. It's pretty obvious that he did give the other horcruxes the ability to possess others aswell. Then that would mean that the ring Dumbledoor had destroyed tried to possess him.

Remember Dumbledoor's black hand? That was a result of destroying it but while Dumbledoor was destroying the soul, it seems as though the soul was fighting back and caused his hand to go black.

My theory is that Dumbledoor failed to destroy the soul. Instead, the soul succeeded at possessing Dumbledoor. Of course, Dumbledoor being a great wizard, manages to overcome the possession of his body but knows that He is not going to last much longer.

This would explain more clearly Dumbledoor's sudden decision to let Harry know everything that he's been finding for years and not keep it secret like he apparently has with everyone around him, why he seems to suggest that he won't be continuing the search for the horcruxes and that Harry will have to take over, why he would drink the potion that covered the locket instead of letting Harry do it himself, and why he would let snape kill him. (so that the horcruxe can't eventually fully possess him and would be destroyed)

This may also be proof that Snape is good because Snape was the one who help Dumbledoor with his injury when he destroyed the ring and Snape would know about the possession. Therefore if Snape killed Dumbledoor in this situation, it would be a good thing and not a bad thing. (I am not suggesting that Snape is good)

As for letting Malfoy allow a team of Death Eaters to enter Hogwarts without confronting him or stopping him, the book apparently is clear about the reason, which is that Malfoy would be murdered if Dumbledoor suspected him. For me I will stick with this reason for now.

For all of you who reads this, I'm not telling you that this will happen, I am just making the best guess I can with the information given to me.

Wow, thats a great theory helloooooooooooooooooo. It would make sense, too, and I support it, at least for the most part. Would this mean that each Horcrux has the power to take control of the one who discovered it, or had the most interaction with, or who attempted/did destroy it? Dumbledore did destroy the ring, or rather the emblem on it (since thats where the soul was...the House of Peveral I believe)...we saw Harry destroy the diary which destroyed the Tom Riddle that came out of there...and it didn't do anything afterwords.



This is where it turns for me. Perhaps a part of the soul did succeed in getting the best of Dumbledore, and he destroyed the Horcrux but not the soul and managed to contain it in his hand which is why it looked dead. Is this proof that living things can't hold the souls that don't belong to them?

I think your theory opens the door to many possibilities! Maybe, if you'd like to, you can make a whole new topic on it



I agree with you hp6. Can the cards talk? If thats possible, then Harry can carry one around and ask him questions. Sounds a little too convenient

i guess theres not much to say i wouldve thought that dumbledore wouldve still been alive if it wasnt for JKR who said so, i think that RAB changed the horcrux for the fake locket heaps ago, it appeared in the OoTP, remember?


bLooDtRAitoR

....yUK trOll BOogIes.......

Response to El Barto:



Yes, I suppose that two (or one and a seventh) souls are not able to inhabit a completely living being. Remember when Ginny was in the Chambre of Secrets? Remember how Tom said she was about to die? My theory is that the soul has to kill the living thing it's possessing in order to do so, unless the other soul is willing to share the body (Prof Quirel and maybe Nagini).

Thanks so much for your opinion. If you want another discussion started about this, you can start it El Barto, because as you can see, I'm just showing hints of magic (meanning I'm not good with this discussion stuff) and I don't really know how.. Last time I tried, I broke a bunch of rules and they ended my discussion. I don't even know if I used the quotes properly =P. Oh well.. you can take the credit if you want.