well what does everybody think about the other 3 horcruxes then and their locations? i think these 3 are at:
1. nagini
2. chamber of secrets
3. godrics hollow

the diary, and ring were destroyed for sure.

The locket is questionable.

That leaves the snake (also questionable), the cup, and something else (I think something of Ravenclaws...something having to do with the death of Dorcas Meadows).

So I think the cup is at the Smith house, the snake is with or near Voldemort, and the other item I have no idea. The locket, is either destroyed...in the cave (with an inferi), in Grimmauld Place, with Aberforth...or somewhere else

...so...what does this have to do with Dumbledore's last night

It actually has nothing to do with Dumbledore's last night. kirkstain, there is a thread discussing the seven horcruxes in this forum, if you'd like you can jump in over there.

Also for you, kirkstain:

JTD

just wondering is the trusted quote the thing i asked about bella having a horcrux, and how she mentioned it, maybe, during the 2nd chapter? just wondering..

yeah sorry, i cant even remember why i started about the other horcruxes here.
yeah they didnt help too much, i just dont have my book with me to check it up, it would be interesting to see though.
thats exactly the thing crsdba.

I just thought I'd add to it so no one would forget about this thread.

I think a few things might need to be addressed...and perhaps we need to start anew since everyone may have forgotten

Since this is the last night of Dumbledore, we need to leave it at that...unless a certain event(s) go hand in hand with it.

-Why was Snape left in his room while the rest of the Order patrolled or were elsewhere?
-anything about the potion
-Did Dumbledore lift the enchantments off the Astronomy Tower?
-If he did, could he have told Snape through Occlumency and Legilimency?
-Did Snape, after surveying the scene, realize there were two brooms?
-If he did, did he already know Harry was there?

Theres a lot more questions, so those are just a few, and may have logical answers. What are your guys's answers and other questions?

Now that I have more time, I'll address these questions.

-Why was Snape left in his room while the rest of the Order patrolled or were elsewhere?
Maybe Dumbledore, already knowing Draco was up to something, decided that whenever he went out that Snape was not to out and about as well. That would only mean that Dumbledore wanted to make sure that Snape didn't get hurt...for what? To make sure he killed him? Something else?

-Did Dumbledore lift the enchantments off the Astronomy Tower?
I for one think he did, which supports the Snape-is-RAB theorists. If RAB is Regulus or someone else who wasn't on the tower, then I have no idea why he would do this...maybe he didn't...maybe it was just the enchantment allowing brooms to fly in...so if it was to get Snape back, then yes I think he told Dumbledore through Occlumency/legilimency

-Did Snape, after surveying the scene, realize there were two brooms?
I think he did, which he also knew that Harry would be chasing him, which would show that he wanted to get out real fast for a different reason...not sure on this one

what i personally think is the most important question is why did DD fly off the tower when hit with the AK?
i know this has been spoken about before, but we never really came up with a conclusion. We know from the other AK curses used that the victim drops dead, but DD doesnt. so why is this? the only way i think he could have flown off is when snape made the AK curse. Non-verbal spells are a huge part of the book, and it is definitely possible that snape could have used one.
So the next question is why did he do this? there must have been a reason to it if thats what snape did. there are a few possible reasons for why he did it.
1. DD is still alive, he was hit off so that the DEs wouldnt tamper with him or notice that he could be alive (unlikely)
2. for the switch to happen (much more likely). this would leave the possibility that snape is RAB, but i still think its regulus, maybe hes the brutal faced DE.
sorry for overlaping to the other thread, this isnt the place for that

hey
i think that snape threw two curses at dd, one the ak and the other a lifting spell, because nonverbs are important, so i think jk was leading us on to that, but why would snape do that?
its only sensible if they had a plan.

I don't think it is ever said that an AK curse simply kills and the person falls directly down. Can anyone provide absolute proof from the books that it works that way? We know that when Harry tries to use an unforgiveable curse that it just knocks Bella over. It doesn't do much to her because he hadn't ever done it before and he didn't have enough evil in him to mean it. What I'm trying to say is that there are different levels of curses based on the power of the person using them. Perhaps the one that Snape killed Dumbledore with was more powerful than the ones that we have seen in the past. You would think that it would take a powerful spell to kill Dumbledore.

I think that if the AK curse doesn't typically throw the victim around, then Snape would be bringing more attention to himself than necessary. Why would he do something that the death eaters would notice as strange? I know that some of them are still suspicious of Snape and I'm also sure they have seen a few AK curses commited.

hp6
ooh i love refering back to the books
in short, but exact, here is the direct quote from the book when the cops find the riddles.

GOF page 2
"The maid had run screaming down the hill into the village and roused as many people as she could.
"Lying there eyes wide open!" "Cold as ice!" "Still in their dinner things!"...........................
The police were summoned..........................
"For plainly, three apperently health people did not frop dead at all from natural causes................

to me that doesnt give enough explanation to figure out what they do when they die.
but i found something else in HBP that might give a little bit of insight as to what happens when you are hit with the curse.

GOF page 14
"There was a flash of green light, a rushing sound, and Frank Bryce crumpled. He was dead before he hit the floor."

in here it just seems to me that you fall and die. just like that. nothing but a flash of green light and your gone.

i found something else to that shows the avada kedavra at work. this is where moody does the Avada Kedavra on the spider in Defence Against The Dark Arts.

GOF page 216
"There was a flash of blinding green light and a rushing sound, as through a vast, invisable something was soaring through the air---- instantaniously the spider rolled over onto its back, unmarked, but unmistakably dead."

ok now this is the one that really gets me thinking. ""as through a vast, invisable something was soaring through the air"" just a thought here but mabey the Avada Kedavre takes a form like the Patronus charm. and just like the Patronus charm the strength of the wizard depends on how strong the curse or charm is. hermiony's Patronus is a otter, Harry's is a stag. in my opinion the stag would be stronger just b/c it is a stronger animal. mabey i am being a little bias here but i do think the form of the animal also depends on the strength.

i hope that again reading a few examples of the curse in action will help a few people figure something out.
i know i didnt get the whole AV taking a form theory until i went back a read moody casting it again. so in a way thanks hp6.

hang on i have an idea, please read and see what you think of it.
once somebody mentioned that there is significance that DD had a tiny bit of blood coming from his mouth or lip or something like that, i might know the significance. When the maid was running through the town telling everybody the riddles had been murdered she said they were "cold as ice". If you are that cold you are practically frozen, so how could DD have blood coming from him if he was frozen, surely the blood would freeze. DD is still alive

Interesting thought! I think, though that Dumbledore's presence is not determined by him being there physically. Remember "He will only be gone from the school when none here are loyal to him". He might return at the end of 7 as a spirit, and will have looked over Harry as he fulfilled his destiny.

I think Dumbledore's dead. I take what JKR writes as what it is, and if someone Avada Kedavra's someone, then they are going to be dead. I'm pretty sure that Dumbledore does not have the same protections as Harry from that curse, so it is unlikely he survived that, even though he is the best ever.

Yeah, Peter Pettigrew cheated death, blahblahblah, but Dumbledore would never do that. He would get no gain from it whatsoever. And I think we really need to pay attention to Fawkes's behavior. They are both very connected. And I think if Fawkes thinks he's dead, that's good enough evidence for me.

yeh im thinking he is dead too, i mean at the least snape sent two curses one and the AK so he is dead, and like i said, if the spell didnt kill him the fall would, and no i dont think hes got the protection either, and my guess is harry only has it from vl, because thats who lilly was protecting him forom

i think that i have a really valid theory here with the whole avada kedavra taking a form thing. i think that i have introduced enough evidence to support it as well. could someone plaese give me a few ideas or responces on this theory. mabey it was just overlooked.... the whole post is just a few above this one.

well i dont see your theory about it taking form?

i think that any time we see the person die that they drop, not fly, and in the ones we dont see, they appear to have just died, no throw.

but whats the form thing about

Can someone help me?

The flying thing, is it important because that means that Snape really wanted to kill Dumbledore and therefore put so much power in it that it knocked DD backwards? I read back a bit, but I couldn't find where this might be mentioned.

If that's the case, I have a counter theory. Remember that Snape had a look of hatred on his face when he did this? And those of us who believe he's good say that it was hatred of himself for having to kill DD, or hatred of the deed itself at least.

The same can be said of the power of the curse he sent. He had to totally commit to the deed, otherwise he would never be able to do it. If he hesitated, he would choke.

If he could have killed Dumbledore with a laid-back curse, I would say he didn't feel a thing and was rotten to the core. But he couldn't.

The emotion and passion of the curse could have been because he cared so intensely. He found it incredibly difficult to do this for Dumbledore, actually having to kill him, but he had to do it with his whole heart and soul, because Dumbledore wanted it.

That was why he completely lost it when Harry called him a coward - he had just done the most difficult thing of his life for which he needed all the courage he had, while at the same time and it was torturing him to shreds.

Hope it makes sense, I'm all jittery because of how emotionally laden this is. Good literature really gets to me sometimes...

i dont think that the power of the curse matters, because we shown that from all the aks that have been seen, the people drop dead, so why would one fly with more power being put in, he should drop dead no matter what happens. i think he used expelliarmus at the same time for a switch to happen possibly, or DD is still alive, which i think it still possible but unlikely.

i dont think AK takes a form, all we know about it is that it is a flash of green light, JKR was using a metaphor when describing DDs murder.

yeh i agree i think that the form was just to add an effect
not because of a patronus or anything, but also i think that the power of the curse doesnt matter, becasue vl is the most powerful wizard ever but his victs dont fly.

well so much for that one :)but it is all good. it was just a random thought. thanks for the input.i still think that the strenght of the wizard matters. not just the want to do it. but hey we are all entitled to our own opinions.


"He will only be gone from the school when none here are loyal to him". . i forgot all about that phrase. with that in mind. i dont think that dumbledore is ""gone"". he is dead but not gone. being the most powerful wizard in the world i am sure that he has found some way to still comunicate with harry and the others, whether is be through extracted memories or something else. i think that he has left harry somekind of instructions. he knew that he was going to be around forever and that harry was the ONE that had to defeat voldemort. dumbledore wouldnt just leave him nothing. i think that upon his death there were to be instructions given to only him. mabye left a gringotts or something. in the begining of book seven i think that harry will get these instructions and they will go something like

..."""harry you have to finish school. nothing is more important that your education. you need to be as prepared as you can be. and dont shut everyone out. you need help. you cant do this on your own harry. keep ron and hermione close. they are you best friends and you need them. also make sure you use the order. they are more prepared for this than you think or want to think. enclosed are further instructions."""

I don't know if this has been siad before on one of these posts, I haven't read them all, but what if the more powerful the killing curse, the quicker the death. I mean Frank Bryce the Potters, Cedric Diggory, they all dropped dead in a flash of green light.

It just makes more sense to me that the more powerful the Avada Kedarva curse, the quicker one would die.

so, what happened with Snape's curse on the Astronomy Tower?

What if he performed it incorrectly,because he detested what he was doing and did not want to kill the one man who trusted him without a doubt, causing Dumbledore to be knocked off the tower? Personally, I don't think that it was the curse that killed the headmaster, but the fall from the tower.
my reason for this is that there was blood oozing from DD's mouth, and doesn't the Avada Kedarva curse leave no whatsoever mark?
And if that is true it would have ment that DD was alive when he fell from the Astronomy Tower.
these are just the what-ifs that have crossed my mind.

please read this and tell me what you think, and correct me if I'm wrong about anything on this post.

Could it be possible that Dumbledore lifted the protections just enough to let him and Harry through on the brooms and when Dumbledore died, all the charms and protections he placed on the school were automatically lifted. Harry's petrificus totallus was lifted the moment Dumbledore died, so why couldn't all the other spells he placed?

sovereign
You have a good point. I have always wondered why everyone else killed by the AK was as cold as ice and frozen, but Dumbledore was curled up with blood oozing out. I do think he is dead because most of the time, bleeding from the mouth is not good at all. In fact, it is very bad. Maybe Snape didn't perform it right and that was why Dumbledore kind of flew off rather than just falling down like the rest did. Hmm.

crissyanthemum
I asked that a long time ago, and I got the answer that the charms on the school did not lift after Dumbledore's death because he was not the only one who had put the charms on the school. Perhaps other headmasters had done a few, and maybe McGonagall helped out. Since his we not the only ones, they weren't released.

We know Snape made his own spells...what if he went as far as making his own killing spell? He says Avada Kedavra but in his non-verbal mind, he's saying the spell he made up. There are three unforgiveable curses...so nobody knows about this one...then it might not be classified as unforgiveable. But it is, since he killed Dumbledore. Where was I going with this?

I think that Dumbledore was already dead by that night because he had actually died getting the first horcrux, i.e. his burnt hand and the constant references to his 'slower reflexes' - but Snape had been able to 'put a stopper in death' for Dumbledore. This allows Malfoys project to be watched and assessed for implications of Voldemorts intentions, and may be an explanation for the different way in which the Avada Kedavra curse has worked. JKR has used this method already i.e. the maturation of a dangerous situation in the Goblet of Fire, to develop the plot.

winky04
i see what you are trying to say but dumbledore couldnt have already died before. " no spell can raise the dead ". this is said countless times in each book.
but i do think that mabey he was going to die anyways and snape gave him a slower not a stopper

Thanks My Erised - good point and likely more accurate.

MOD EDIT: Hey there, please try to elaborate more in your posts; one liners are against the rules. Thanks, QQS

sovereign
awesome theory!!!! ::pats on back::
mabey the fall was what killed him and not the avada kedavra.
as for the whole snape made up his own killing curse.............i am not so sure about that.
snape is good but i dont think that good.
but wait......
snape made sectumspemtra. in a sence isnt that a killing curse.i mean harry casted it on draco and if peeves didnt yell snape wouldnt of come and draco would have died.
so yeah i guess mabye snape could of created a ""KILLING"" curse

awesome idea

I' almost positive that Dumbledore is dead. First, if he wasn't, then the unbreakable vow would have killed Snape. Also, If he hadn't died, Fawkes wouldn't have lamented and his picture would not have appeared in the Headmaster's room. Also, in book 5, when Dumbledore was "gone" (I use quotes because I think he just stayed in his office during that time), the headmaster's room locked itself to all except the rightful headmaster. Yet, in the end of book 6, McGonagal could get into the office, so she was the rightful headmistress.

I think I missed the point you were trying to make there, jabecca.

I get what you put as a quote and all, talking about the Stupified DE, but...could you explain your post perhaps?

I didn't understand that either Jabecca. I think the main theory behind the brutal-faced death eater is that he was stunned then when he came to, he went back up (after realizing somebody else had stunned him) and found the cloak. Then went back down to do the switch.

And now...after writing that...I see what you mean...the Brutal-faced death eater didn't get the cloak, but still could have taken the opportunity to get the Horcrux...maybe...

In my original theory involving the BFDE, I said that he was a cursed Regulus (which is why he had a brutal face!), thats what my "To The Dark Lord" fanfic is about He knew he had the locket because he set Dumbledore up, he planned and observed Harry and Dumbledore ever since his "death", which was really a disappearance...just a theory though...

However, I don't think the BFDE is Regulus anymore, but he may still have some sort of significance...or not...

I think the BFDE will have some importance possibly, but I have a hard time believing he is Regulus. I think Regulus is dead, and we have been through all that so many times...

Where do you think Voldemort got all his people for his Inferi? Were they just a bunch of Muggles he killed or are they significant people? I pictured a lot of bodies in the cave, so I was just wondering where he might've gotten all of those because I'm pretty sure they don't sell those at Wal-Mart... ...

I don't remember if they said this or not, but is Malfoy already a DE or did he just want to be one? I mean, did he have his Dark Mark and all or did Voldemort just send him off with that task to get rid of him because Voldemort didn't like Lucius or something? Does that make any sense?

I know we've been over it a lot...I don't know who started it up again


I'm not sure if Draco has the mark either, I remember Harry hearing him talk about something on his arm but that could have been something else.

What if the potion turns someone into an inferi, and however many inferi there is how many people attempted to take the Horcrux over the years...with or without knowing there was a Horcrux in there. And because they were curious, they're doomed to protect it forever.

However, it seemed the inferi were set up as another protection. So maybe Voldemort did go out and kill some people to make inferi. He went to Walmart and found out they didn't have any...so he made them pay for it...when he finished he simply said "now you do". I can keep going on it, but I'll stop...unfortunatley.

I was just saying that someone interested in a cave would wander on in and for some crazy reason decide to drink the potion Nah, it doesn't make sense...but at least it discounts one thing.

Perhaps their people he personally murdered, and now thier soul purpose in...uh...inferi...is guarding what became the result of them...you know...important deaths to make a Horcrux. That would mean, however, that there would be only about 5 or 6 inferi in there. Therefore, maybe its everyone he's killed in the past...not recently though. Whenever you hear about somebody being killed and thier bodies never being seen again...or maybe they're death eaters who tried to back out...I dunno.

i think that the inferi are just random peopel my guess is he just likes killing people so he had no trouble killing all them to guard his horcruzx, yeh my guess is muggles, because he despises them

just wondering i think i missed somthing, whats the importance of who they are, theyre dead?, but seriously i missed it, probaly just sped read, so if you can point that out... perfect!

thanks

Who the Inferi are isn't really important, but crsdba had brought up the affect of the cave potion possibly suggesting that the potion may turn the intruder into an Inferi. It's all in the posts. Then theres the qyestion about where on earth Volemort could've gotten all those dead people. Muggles is my best guess.

Oops, got my threads confused...

I think we have the inferi part covered, even if they were great wizards or muggles, all they're doing now is guarding a Horcrux...or were

What about these events?:
-Snape before, after, and during the Astronomy Tower
-the potion itself...its purpose, etc.
-Rosmerta's interaction with Dumbledore (anything suspicious at all?)
-Scrimgeour's interest in who was on the tower and overall interest in certain things
-Why did Hagrid want Harry away from Dumbledore's body and didn't ask anyone else to leave?
-The Phoenix's lament...was there a purpose other than grief?
-Why did Dumbledore wait so long to act on the Horcrux?

No one has to answer these, just some things to think about

I'm only going to answer the ones I actually kind of know an answer to...

Rosmerta's interaction with Dumbledore
Personally, I don't think Rosmerta had anything to do with anything like the horcrux. At the time when she met Dumbledore and Harry, I can't say whether she might've been under the Imperius curse or not. I'd say no, but didn't Draco say he had been alerted of their arrival through the coin he gave to her? I don't really know...Does a person have a glazed look or any signs of being under the Imperius Curse or are they just normal?

Hagrid making Harry go away
I think Hagrid knew that Harry cared a lot about Dumbledore, and nobody really wants to sit around and looks at a dead body. Well, I take that back. If you love someone enough, you just might want to stay with them, and Harry I believe loved Dumbledore. I think Hagrid pulled him away because Harry had been through quite enough that evening. And I think it was actually Ginny who got Harry to leave Dumbledore.

Dumbledore and the horcruxes
I think Dumbledore may have been waiting for Harry. He wanted Harry to get the memory so both of them could fully understand the matter at hand. Dumbledore went ahead with the ring, but once he found out about the cave one, he gladly took Harry. I don't necessarily think he was waiting around, I think it just takes a great deal of time to figure these things out.

Well, that's all I suppose. I don't even think I knew what I was talking about in those little bits...

Droobles, you're right, it was Ginny...Hagrid was urging him to leave. So unless its a huge cover-up, where everyone is in on it, then maybe there isn't any significance to that

On page 590 of the US edition, it says that Rosmerta tipped Draco off on leaving, but not coming back...he would have expected Dumbledore to go the tower if the Dark Mark was up. So maybe she was taken off the imperious curse when they left so Dumbledore wouldn't suspect anything when they came back to Hogsmeade...but he did anyway...you know what...I have no idea where I'm going with this My initial thought was that Rosmerta did the switch when Harry was accio-ing the brooms...but I don't think that anymore...just a thought though.

D'oh, you got me again about Dumbledore too Droobles ! He had already heard the tampered with memory though, which mentioned Horcruxes as well...I guess he needed to certain.