I don't yet have a prophecy I just think the wording in the prophecies is very good!

Anyway What is a Prophecy?? :wink:

A prophecy is a prediction of the future. Like in Harry's prophecy it told that neither person can live while the ophter survives. Meaning that in the future either Harry or Voldemort or both of them will have to die.

In this topic I will be putting up all the meanings of prophecy that I can find if you want to help then PM me and DO NOT post in here. If you post I will delete it. I shoud have it up soon.

Also I want to put up an Time Turner/Travel topic that will help to explain the pros and cons of playing with time so if anyone wants to do it let me know. Depending on the response there may be more than one person working on the topic. And if you have any other Harry Potter things you want explained just PM me and I'll see what I can do.
Edit: Sorry about this Triad, to clean up the DoM board I've merged this topic with three other topics. In short, this thread is about discussing theoretical prophecies in general, NOT the Lost Prophecy.

Yeah. I like the prophecies, but I don't think that Harry's prophecy means exactly what we think. There's got to be a loophole. Neville's tied into somehow. I'm pretty sure that Neville will have something to do with Volddemort's death.

Ok. Instead of doing it by myself, cause I'm bored with the topic I'll just let any one post what they think a prophecy is in here. And if you want I'll make a time travel one too.

You are right,Laura!!Neville is tied into them too!!Maybe it oculd be Voldy or Neville to die!! :evil:

harry might die!!! you never know!! she always has a weird surprise for us all the time!!!! but i highly doubt that harry wll die!!

I've got a prophecy, I'm gonna sleep good tonight. Man I'm tired. Yawn

[quote]You are right,Laura!!Neville is tied into them too!!Maybe it oculd be Voldy or Neville to die!! :evil:[/quote]

I don't think Neville have something to do with it.It was maybe him or maybe Harry.But it seems that it's only Harry because at the age of 1, he almost killed Voldemort.

Voldemort had to see if it was Harry or Neville not both.

i dont think that neville is in the prophecy because of how powerful harry is around voldy.

Yeah, it won't be Neville. Voldemort chose Harry and "marked him as his equal". I do think Neville will have a huge part, though. I think he, and maybe Harry, too, will kill Bellatrix.

I don't really understand how they can make prophecies at all, to be honest. I think JKR may be straying into very dodgy territory - How can anyone make prophecies if the Time Turner allows people to go back and change things, negating the prophecy before it's made? Doesn't that do away with free will? What's the point in anyone doing anything if everything is predestined anyway? Maybe the prophecy is just one possibility of how things could be, but in the learning of what is contained within it - particularly by the person it involves - there is the potential to change it - Maybe, now that Harry knows about it before Voldemort had a chance to get it, it gives him some advantage in some way.

Sorry about sounding too Star Trekky with this, but hey, time travel and prophecy making is kind of within the sci-fi theme, isn't it?! It's an interesting idea though, I'm surprised that no-one has commented on it before now - or have they, and I've just missed them??!! :wink:

I find it all weird too. I hope she wont go off on a tangent and start going on about prophecies. But, I think she is trying to set up the idea that they dont mean much and that you can change your future. Look at the way she portrays trelawny. Shes a complete joke, maybe thats what Rowling thinks of it.

Yeah, you're right about Trelawny, but she does occasionally make accurate predictions, which was why Dumbledore gave her the position in the first place. All the same, I don't really like prophecies either and I hope JKR's not going to make a big deal about it. Anyway, the prophecy is broken now - maybe that act itself has already changed the future and now the whole thing's been blown open again - the upcoming war is anyone's game now!!

Breaking the prophecies container does not screw up the prophecy itself. And it never will. It would have been screwed if Voldemort heard it but he didn't so it's still fine. As for Trelawney, she does get it wrong alot but it is sooo difficult to correctly predict things. Because of free will. There are many paths a person can take that will still lead him to what ever end he has. Harry for example could have chosen to hate Sirius the moment he laid eyes on him even with the explanation, but he didn't which led to Sirius dying. If he had chosen to hate him Sirius could quite possibly still be alive. I know he's a character in a book but JKR could have written him anyway she fancied. She could have gone against the normal plots and made Evil triumph over Good therefore making Harry evil. You see, things are pre-destined but you decide how you get there.

^ I agree


Note by TriadOfDarkness: peaceoflorien please make your posts more than "I agree." If you agree that's great but if you want to say so please add a little more to your post.

hmm.......interesting topic. im tired so i dont wanna start thinking about fate and all that rite now, but do you guys think theres any prophecies that've been made about ron or hermione, or any other main characters?

tiradof darkness, are you sure that breaking the prophecy doesnt ruin it?

iI'm sure, breaking prophecy doesn't ruin it. It's just a note, nobody'll be able to hear it, but it'll happen

It won't matter if it's broken, really. Anyone who ever heard the prophecy is still able to remember it word-for-word as Dumbledore said. I doubt he'll tell Voldemort about it..

Anyway, about Trelawney--if you twist all of her predictions a certain way, they're correct. The Grim--a big black dog--is the foreshadowing of Sirius, obviously.

Does it matter if anyone heard it or not? It'll happen in any case!

"about Trelawney--if you twist all of her predictions a certain way, they're correct" © Yes, and a key word here is "if" A black dog is the foreshadowing of Sirius, but not Grim. Trelawney's predictions are quite correct, but she can't interpret them in a propor way.

[size=9]Neville and Harry might kill Bellatrix (such a nice name for someone so evil) because of what she did to poor Sirius and Mr. and Mrs. Longbottom. That will probably be the only part he will play. :cry:

[quote]tiradof darkness, are you sure that breaking the prophecy doesnt ruin it?[/quote]

I'm positive it doesn't ruin it. Because the prophecies in the jars are only a ghost image of what took place when the prophecy was made. If you remember when Harry's prophecy was broken it was Professor Trelawny who came out of it because she was the one who made the prophecy. Once a prophecy has been made, nothing can change it. NOTHING!

I agree that Neville is important to this all. I've tried to think of the loophole, and I can't really find it. I'm sure something in the 7th book will happen when we'll all go "Ohhhh... that makes sense!"

[color=darkred][/color]

Ok I was thinking about this and i belive Neville is related in the killing of Voldemort. I bet something like Neville will kill him instead of harry. Because isnt in the prophisy (sorry about spelling) something about it was either harry or neville. Oh wow im getting myself confused.

There might be a possibility that Harry will die, the books are full of surprises but I highly doubt it. And I also think that Neville will play a big part in the killing ov Voldemort.

I just finished re-reading the book for the second time. and I still do not fully understand the part about the prophecy. What does it mean,

It means that Harry had been born to parents who had defied Voldemort three times, and that he was born as the seventh month (july) ends. Also, that in the end, either Harry or Voldemort has to die.

I'm really sorry, but poor grammer is my MAJOR pet peeve...so the person who said their prophecy was that they were going to "sleep good tonight", it's "sleep well tonight". SORRY!! I really am, but it's like a compulsive thing...anyway...back to the topic now...

Okay, this is really confusing to me too, but I think I can help. Okay, read this post carfully! =p Lord Voldemort wanted to see what the prophecy said. It said that the one to vanquish him would be born as the seventh month dies. July 31st! This boy would have powers that Lord Voldemort would never have. One of Voldemort's death eaters was eavesdropping on Professor Dumbledore and Professor Trelawney's conversation. The death eater only heard the first few sentences before he was caught and kicked out of the pub. He told Voldemort what he heard, but did NOT tell him that attacking Harry would result in Voldemort's downfall. That's how it happened, and I hope you understand better!

Order of the Phoenix spoilers...


Here's how I understand the prophecy.

The child who would be Voldemort's enemy had to be born in July to parents who had defied him (Voldemort) three times. Both Harry and Neville fit that description, but what the eavesdropping Death Eater didn't hear was that the child had to be marked by Voldemort himself as an equal. So when Voldemort assumes Harry is the child, he decides to kill him. Instead of the curse killing him, it gave him the scar which is the mark that makes him Voldemort's equal. The rest of the prophecy states that in the end, Harry must kill or be killed by Voldemort and Voldemort must kill or be killed by Harry.

so in other words, voldemort could have either chose neville or harry as his equal. he could have made things easy for him by chosing the less talented neville and could have easily killed him but he didn't hear that part about the prophesy. so instead he chose harry first, i guess randomly.

He wouldn't have known Neville was less talented when he was just a child. He did not get to hear all the prophecy (thus why he wanted it so badly in OotP) and did not realize that the child that the prophecy was about would be marked as his equal.

He chose Harry because he, like the Dark Lord, is a half-blood. Thus deepening the connection that Harry and You-Know-Who have...

Maybe the prophecy can't be ruined by the orb breaking, but if someone does use a time turner, could the outcome be changed then? Or would the prophecy have predicted that as well?

But what if Voldemort picked the wrong baby? I don't think he did, but say the prophecy was really about Neville? That would change things wouldn't it?

See, this is why time turners are strictly controlled, because they mess with your head. Wasn't the prophecy just a copy of Dumbledore's memory of the incident as no one was there to record it the first time?

Maybe prophecies only predict things that are certain. Like, now that Harry's been marked, he HAS to defeat VT. Or maybe the prophecies all have more than one possible outcome...

Or since prophecies are just predictions, which are just educated guesses (in this case, with a little magic added) then things can be changed by one different choice and only the prophecies that are true are kept in the DoM...

A prophecy is a prophecy... there really is no way around it, in my opinion. I don't have the 5th book on me, but from what I understood, Neville would have just died if Voldemort attacked him.

Why did Voldemort pick who in his mindset would be the weaker wizard instead of the pureblood? Because the prophecy said he'd mark one equal. While Voldemort didn't know of this part, he chose Harry for a reason...

I think that it is right to think that Neville ties in to it somehow, in a way in which will somehow lead 2 Voldie's death. Maybe Neville himself will die, or Luna. I think that both of them will die, in fact, but the Prophecy alone confuses me, but I agree that either Harry or Voldie or both of them have to die...we'll have to see, I'm clueless, that's all.

Voldy picked Harry because he felt Harry was more his equal, not being a pure-blood. But I do have this question, is Harry a half blood? I mean, both of his parents were wizards. That still confusses me till this day.

The blood lines thing can be a pain in the..er..neck...sometimes

Harry is a half blood because yes, both his parents were wizards, but Lily was a mudblood (hence the whole Snape insult, James and Sirius bullying him incident in OoTP). Both her parents were Muggles, but they had a magical child, just like Hermione's parents were Muggles, making her a mudblood too.

Now, when two mudbloods get together, or a half blood and a mudblood for that matter, their children would be half bloods too. Only 2 pure bloods can produce a pure blood, but as Ron said in CoS, there are very few of those around anymore because practically all the pure bloods have had their lines 'polluted'...They've had to, or they'd have died out.

Have I just made things worse??!!

OK so then how did Voldy know that Harry was only a half-blood and where to find him? I don't understand. And does he know now about Neville?

I suppose he must be aware of Neville by now. Bellatrix was jailed for torturing his parents, so I'm sure she and Voldemort would have had a conversation somewhere along the line where she would have mentioned it.

As for Voldemort knowing Harry was a half blood, I don't know. I suppose, seeing as how he must have known the Potters to want them dead, he must have known that they weren't pure bloods. But they were both wizards, making Harry a half-blood by default.

Or maybe he just kind of senses these things...

He knew where to find them 'cos Pettigrew told him - that's why Sirius, Harry and Lupin were so upset about his betrayal, 'cos he was their best friend...

i think the prophecy meant that either harry or voldemort had to kill eachother, not just that one would die. so i thought when we read the prophecy it meant that harry would either be the victim of a murder or be a murderer himself. thats what i think anyways.

"Neither can live while the other survives." This line from the HP/Voldemort prophecy has made me think ALOT since I read the 5th book. At first it makes sence, they both can't go on and so one of them has to kill the other, whatever. But when you really think about how it's worded, and that's obviously not all. It says "Neither can live while the other survives." Not, neither can live while the other survives at this point, or neither can have a normal life while the other survives. No, it says neither can LIVE, just live. And by most standards it seems both Harry and Voldemort have been living and surviving each in their own way for the past 15 years. Maybe I'm crazy or I just think about things to hard but .. is it possible neither of them are really alive? (or something to that extent.) Just wondering .. any thoughts?

Well, I definitely think you've got a point.
I guess you've read the interview of JKR (festival of Edimburgh): she says one of the big question is why didn't Voldemort died. So maybe the things he's done in order not to die force him into have some kind of half life now (though everyone thinks he succeeded in his revival at the end of GoF).
But then, how can Harry kill a man that is already more or less dead?
I hope you've got a theory about that...

That's a good point, it's hard to kill someone who's already dead, but since they are connected (by Harry's scar) and maybe in other ways as well because of the connection Harry can kill him? And besides Voldemort is kind of alive now since the 4th book, although that still leaves the first three books unacounted for. It's a little far fetched but it's definatley something to think about.

Well, i do not particularly suppose that Voldemort was already dead, but that he achieved eternal life [or at least survival] throught Dark forces, because the thing He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named thinks is the most terrible thing in the world is DEATH. An opinion, you know...Good ideas above me!!!!

Maybe it's not Voldemort who's actually dead, maybe it's Harry, Hm, but I don't really buy that, lol.

There's a lot of people who think that Dumbledore only gave Harry part of the prophecy. We don't know how the pensieve works exactly, so maybe he only showed him part of that memory. Perhaps once Harry learns Occlumency he'll be able to hear the rest of the prophecy. I think we didn't hear it all. Dumbledore didn't want to risk that Voldemort would break into Harry's mind and hear what he so desperatly wants to know.