DumbyRocks
Mar 4 2006, 10:23 PM
Two nights ago while reading the HBP, i came up with a wild theory.We all know that for some reason, Fawkes didn't show up to rescue Dd in the end. I was wondering why this was the case when something hit me. What if Snape was an animagus pheonix? What if he was Fawkes? Suppose he was Fawkes it would explain why Faweks wasn't there in the end ( well because he was actually there but in human form). Trying to find more evidence to support the theory, i begin to flip through all of the books. And surprisingly when ever everyone was gathered in Dd's office, Snape wasn't there. Was it coincidence that Snape happened to never be in the same roonm as Fawkes or was it planned by JKR? It became very suspicious in the fourth book when everyone was going form room to room but Snape was never in a room with Fawkes.
I always wondered what was the purpose of the chapter"sectumsempra"( sorry if i can't spell). i think it's a clue. Pheoixes have healing power. when Harry used the spell on Malfoy, Snape was able to run his wand over the wounds and heal them. Harry seemed surprised at this. It could have been that in six years at hogwarts, he has never seen wounds being healed this way and didn't know about the spell. but what if it was more of a special ability than a spell? Dd in the cave was able to do the same.(I actually believe dD might be an animagus pheonix as well, but that's for another thread)
Other small things I have noticed:
1) Fawkes' eyes are dark and black like Snape. He seems to understand humans
2) Fawkes gave a small cry when Harry stormed in to Dd's office saying Snape passed on the information to Voldy. What did the cry mean?
3) Dd said he could have died if it wasn't for Snape's timely actions. Well, if Snape was Fawkes it would make more sense that fawkes was always there to save Dd and Harry. I mean why was Snape the person who saved Dd anyway?
4) It would explain Dd's trust in Snape ( at least a little)
5) When Katie Bell put on the cursed "necklace? " Snape was the one who saved her. Dd claimed that that was because Snape knew more about the dark arts that Madam promfry.
6) rowling said something has been building up for the seventh book. it could be that Snape's secret is finally revealed.in the sorcerer's stone, Snape saved Harry. if Snape is fawkes, then snape saved Harry in the second book too. In the third book, Snape brought the Harry and hermoine back safely. ( if Snape wasn't Fawkes, then why wasn't the pheonix theret o help?) In the fourth book, Fawkes was also there. in the fifthe book, Fawkes saved Dd. In the sixth book Fawekes didn't show up but Snspe was present to kill Dd.
7) in chapter 2 of HBP. Bellatrix asked why wasn't Snape there in the department of mysteries. Following the thoery, Snape ws actually there but in animal form.
8) In the end of the HBP, the pheonix left the grounds about the same time Snape probably left Hogwarts. Hmm..
There's lots of small small little things that re really suspicious but that's the general idea. Please tell me what you think and ask about anything that's confusing. ( I'm not very good at putting my thoughts into words)

Thanks
Peyton
Mar 4 2006, 10:36 PM
Well, in response to your 'the pheonix left the grounds about the same time Snape probably left Hogwarts.' Fawkes' lament carried on for a while, no? I doubt that Snape would have dared to stay on the school grounds for that long.
I don't know, it does seem as though it could have some possibilities, but it also seems a little far-fetched.
Caitlin in Australia
Mar 5 2006, 01:14 AM
| QUOTE (Peyton @ Mar 5 2006, 09:36 AM) |
| I don't know, it does seem as though it could have some possibilities, but it also seems a little far-fetched. |
I agree it does seem far fected but I thought the exactly the same thing for Snape as the Half-Blood Prince and it turned out right.
I see your point with Snape and Fawkes never being in the same room because you'd think they would be after all Fakes is Dd's bird and Snape a teacher.
Fawkes is the most loyal thing to Dd and Dd also trusts Snape for unknown reasons.
Fawkes gave two feathers for wands, Harry's and LV's, he also ends up saving Harry and spying on LV. Does this connect also with why he has such a connection with the two of them?
He also felt in debut to James for saving his life so in return does something for Harry in book 1,3,(4?) and 5 but if he is Fawkes that would include 2 and 6, where he heals Draco to stop Harry having commited murder.
I can't think of any more right now!
Capricorn
Mar 5 2006, 02:16 PM
I really like this theory! A bit far-fetched, but the idea of a connection between Fawkes and Snape is very cool.
There's just something about Snape that makes me trust his loyalty (it might be that DD trusts him, but same difference really). I think that Snape has a very strong bond with Dumbledore, stronger than most others, since he had to do to DD what DD would ask if no-one else - to kill him.
The squawk Fawkes gave is interesting. He's also mentioned again in that scene, so the repetition might suggest that his presence is important. It might show at least that fawkes and Snape have a connection, even if they're not one and the same.
cesador
Mar 5 2006, 03:18 PM
i like the idea but the problem is didnt fawkes feathers go in harry and LV wands and Snape is younger then LV? so how could he have given a feather to go in LVs wands if he wasnt born yet? And if Snape was older then why would he goto school around harrys parents time?
Peyton
Mar 5 2006, 03:23 PM
| QUOTE (cesador @ Mar 5 2006, 10:18 AM) |
| i like the idea but the problem is didnt fawkes feathers go in harry and LV wands and Snape is younger then LV? so how could he have given a feather to go in LVs wands if he wasnt born yet? And if Snape was older then why would he goto school around harrys parents time? |
Wow, good point, I never thought about that. Even if Snape was older that James and the Mauraders, he wouldn't be old enough to have donated a feather to LV, unless Voldemort got a new wand after his school days..
But I'm pretty sure Snape was the same age as James and that Mauraders.
Melzor... on toast
Mar 5 2006, 04:05 PM
Um, are we forgetting something about phoenixes here? They die... and then are reborn! So if we follow the theory, Snape has the potential to live forever and be present at any time during magical history.
My, what a plot device!
Capricorn
Mar 5 2006, 09:49 PM
Yeah, I guess he's not an animagus - but I'd like to think there's a connection. Probably that Fawkes might help Harry to trust Snape like Dumbledore would have wanted... Harry completely trusts Fawkes, because, like dumbyrocks said, he has helped Harry many times.
I hope Fawkes is back in book7! (But I'm quite sure he will be...)
thesolitaryone
Mar 6 2006, 09:10 AM
I may be wrong but being the bluntly truthful person I am, I must just say this. What? These theories are getting more and more unbeliveable. Soon we will be asking if Dobby is the ultimate ruler of the earth. You can do better than Snape being a bird, i mean serioulsy.
Come on!
DumbyRocks
Mar 6 2006, 08:33 PM
Hi "thesolitaryone", i don't usually believe something unless there are reasons behind it. I totally understand if this theoy seems far fetched right now, but the reason i put it up is because i actually want people to prove me wrong, to comeup with definite evidence that snape couldn't possibly be fawkes. anything is possible after all

I also think it is possible for snape to have been living for a very very long time since if he was an animagus pheonix then he would be able to be born and reborn.
Peyton
Mar 6 2006, 09:19 PM
But if he were able to be re-born, and Harry's seen Fawkes being re-born many a time. Everytime that Fawkes is re-born, Snape isn't. If he were Fawkes, wouldn't he be re-born eveytime Fawkes was?
cesador
Mar 6 2006, 11:18 PM
| QUOTE (Peyton @ Mar 6 2006, 03:19 PM) |
| But if he were able to be re-born, and Harry's seen Fawkes being re-born many a time. Everytime that Fawkes is re-born, Snape isn't. If he were Fawkes, wouldn't he be re-born eveytime Fawkes was? |
yea which in COS when fawkes burst into flames that would totally not make sense with snape still being around. Even though a phonix can get to adult age farely quickly from what i have gathered, it still wouldnt line up that well, Snape would have looked unusually young. this is of course if the effect of the animagus has the effect on the human, and this is really hard to tell considering we dont know of anyone yet who is the animagus of a magical creature.
DumbyRocks
Mar 7 2006, 08:46 PM
That is a pretty good point. yeah i really don't see how snape could have came back from the dueling club so fast to be back in Dd's office again to be reborn.
silver_moon
Mar 8 2006, 01:02 AM
mmm... i don't think this theory would work... i agree with those who said that if the bird reborns, also the human would... and if in COS fawkes reborned naturally (he wasn't hurt as in OOTP), then we would have a very old snape... and we also saw a teenager snape in the pensieve... i don't think this will work, really. these theories are nice, but not real... though, maybe there's something about snape and the bird that we don't know...
Czar
Mar 8 2006, 04:36 AM
I appreciated the deduction you made at the beginning, where you said Snape was never in Dumbledore's office when "everyone" was gathered there. I do not have books with me, so I'll take your word for it on that, but I would ask you to take the research a little further. Instead of looking for Snape's absence, look for Fawkes'. If Fawkes is absent whenever Snape is in Dumbledore's office, your theory is considerably strengthened. Also, be thorough and see if Snape's whereabouts can ever be explained when we know Fawkes'. For example, do we know where Snape was when Fawkes helped Harry in the Chamber? Has Harry ever made a direct trip from Snape's classroom to Dumbledore's office (making it impossible for Snape to be in both places, in any form)? I'm not saying this to belittle your theory; it is simply for the sake of objectivity. Also, I would do the research myself, but I am currently without books (not even my HBP...I can't do my fifth read for another month...cry)
HP number one Fan
Apr 7 2006, 10:16 PM
I always thought that Dumbledore was an animagus and was a pheonix himself. Thats why him a fawks got on so well. And when DD died and the book said Harry looked up to the sky and saw what looked like a pheonix smiling as if flew off it could have been DD when he rose from the ashes...but my theory has no real facts to back it up. I must say this is an iteresting approach to the whole Snape being a good guy theroy. I had never really thought about it like that. Though I think it is unlikly that Snapw would be an Pheoni. To me animagi's animal forms sort of compliment their personalities.
Sirius=Dog: Loyal, barks worse than his bite, his laugh was even like a dog.
James=Stag: Tall and proud, looking out for its family(aka Harry and Lily)
Peter=Mouse: Timid, small, always escapes, cowardly, weak
McGonagall= Cat: Clever, serious,proud
Snape=Pheonix?: healing powers, loyal, ever lasting life (well Snape is good at healing and is Loyal but to whom?)
Your theory is a good and fresh idea....it will certainly have me thinking.
therearethree
May 12 2006, 08:12 PM
Two thoughts:
1) Snape is an Animagus, but he's not Fawkes, even though he probably would be pleased to lure someone into thinking so.
2) Fawkes is indeed far more than he seems to be, and he even could be said to "be" another character in the series, but not because that character is an Animagus either. Rather, he and Fawkes are one being split into two separate bodies -- for now....
skater314159
May 13 2006, 07:26 PM
I like your reasoning... although I agree with
Czar that we might need to do a little more research on this...
HP number one Fan said something that got me thinking:
QUOTE
Snape=Pheonix?: healing powers, loyal, ever lasting life (well Snape is good at healing and is Loyal but to whom?)
Remember in PS, Ch. 8, p. 102 (UK paperback edition) Snape's introductory speech in Potions?
QUOTE
...I don't expect you will really understand the beauty of the softly simmering cauldron with its shimmering fumes, the delicate power of liquids that creep through human veins, bewitching the mind, ensnaring the senses... I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper death - if you aren't as big a bunch of dunderheads as I usually have to teach.
Of the three things he lists that he can teach his students, we have seen two of those potions
fame & glory =
Felix Felicis?
stopper death = could this be
Draught of Living Death, or something else? It could
possibly be something that could allow you to have the regenerative powers of a Phoenix.
Well, I don't know if that makes sense or not - but its what I thought of as I was reading this thread. Once again
Dumbyrocks thanks for this thought-provoking thread!
Giannabella
May 17 2006, 10:32 PM
OK, here are a couple of thoughts. An Animagus is a witch/wizard who takes on animal form. They are not truly becoming that kind of animal. If you think about how long witches/wizards live and how long animals live, you have to ask this question? Why are any of them still alive? Take Peter Pettigrew for instance. It is mentioned that a common house rat lives for roughly for 3 or 4 years. So, assuming the theory that Snape can live forever because he turns into a pheonix, why isn't Peter dead already? True, the comparison with the people and their animal forms is similar but I believe that's more to do with them turning into something that reflects them. NOT their animal form changing who they are. Even, if we assume that Snape IS a phoenix, he is NOT fawkes and would not be able to be reborn and live forever.
LilyPotter
May 17 2006, 10:49 PM
First off, I have to say bravo to this totally original and un-thought-of theory.
That being said... I must disagree. When Snape heals Draco after Harry uses Sectumsempra on him, he uses magic. A phoenix's tears have healing power... not the phoenix itself. Snape certainly wasn't crying and wiping the tears on Draco.
Plus, I mean, come on... Snape? A phoenix?
I would believe like, a lizard or something... Maybe even a raven or a crow if you had to go with birds...
You have a lot of excellent points... but I just don't believe Snape could be Fawkes.
MadamSureves
May 19 2006, 12:50 AM
QUOTE(LilyPotter @ May 17 2006, 04:49 PM) [snapback]186386[/snapback]
When Snape heals Draco after Harry uses Sectumsempra on him, he uses magic. A phoenix's tears have healing power... not the phoenix itself. Snape certainly wasn't crying and wiping the tears on Draco.
I couldn't agree more. Also, doesn't it seem like, having supposedly invented the Sectumsempra and having, at the very least, know the spell since his days as a student, Snape would know a way by now to heal it?
QUOTE(LilyPotter @ May 17 2006, 04:49 PM) [snapback]186386[/snapback]
Plus, I mean, come on... Snape? A phoenix?
I would believe like, a lizard or something... Maybe even a raven or a crow if you had to go with birds...
I agree again. Plus, I can't see Snape being anyone's loyal pet. Also, if we're assuming that Snape is on Dumbledore's side, I still can't see him sitting and (for lack of a better word) crying in Dumbledore's office for a lengthy period of time.
QUOTE(DumbyRocks @ Mar 4 2006, 04:23 PM) [snapback]167312[/snapback]
I always wondered what was the purpose of the chapter"sectumsempra.
I don’t know what anyone else thinks, and I’d have to go back and read it to see if it tells me anything else, but I got 2 things from this chapter. First, it showed Draco’s fears and weakness, as opposed to just looking sickly. I would have been highly incredulous of the part at the end where Draco can’t kill Dumbledore and is shaking if I had not seen him show this weakness earlier in the book. It would be going straight from the supposedly arrogant (if more distracted and busy than usual) and haughty boy that he’s been since the beginning. It’s wouldn’t make sense.
Secondly, it shows that Snape knew of the spell and also helps as a transition for when Snape admits to being the Half-Blood Prince. It shows that Snape had a deep enough knowledge that he not only knew what it was, but new how to heal it, and he knew that it was Dark magic, which Harry hadn’t known up to that point. Now, I admit, Harry could probably figure it out, but he hasn’t shown himself to always be the smartest of boys and I could really see him trying to talk himself into still thinking there was nothing wrong with it if Snape hadn’t told him it was dark magic. We already see that, when angry and desperate, Harry will resort to using even one of the Unforgivable Curses and he also tried to use Sectumsempra again, so I don’t think it’s that far fetched.
bubotuber_pus
May 22 2006, 04:13 PM
I'm not sure if Snape really invented Sectumsempra. At first I thought he did because he was yelling: "Don't use my own spells against me" (more or less

), but... there aren't any signs of work in HBP book - and there were when it comes to Levicorpus.
The theory gave me something to think about. If Snape was Fawkes... Why Fawkes, I mean I've always thought he'd be a spider or a bat. Snape isn't beautiful like Fawkes

I do agree that the maker of the theory has some valid points. I just don't think that the Animagus form fits Snape, though it would be great if Snape=Fawkes saved Harry in CoS just like he saved him in HBP.
By the way: wouldn't be Snape too busy being in his classroom, in his office, close to Dumbledore, Voldemort and meeting the Order?
It's funny that when Snape heals Sectumsempra wound, it sounds as if he was singing.
I.will.remember.you
Oct 8 2006, 05:44 PM
How in the world could anyone think this could possibly be true.
What about in the first movie where Harry see's Snape's leg cut up after the troll was in the school.
If he was Fawkes wouldnt he heal himself after, especially since he noticed Harry looking at it?
That's the only example I can think of now since I havent read one of the books since the summer and the only reason I remembered that one was because im watching the first movie now.
Phoenix92
Oct 9 2006, 12:26 PM
I really don't think so!.As I.will.remember.you.said,Snape would have able cure himself right?.But still it makes me think that Snape can't heal wounds and save himself but he can help others.Anyway,it's a very nice theory!!
katiemarie
Oct 13 2006, 03:21 AM
Snape is not Fawkes that would mean he is an unregistered animagus and DD would not have been to keen on that. I don;t think that is why DD trusted him.
I think that this is way to far fetched. I don't think that Snape is Fawkes because Fawkes left after Snape left and I doubt Snape would push his limits to stay that long. It was way too risky.
Albus Dumbledore
Oct 13 2006, 03:40 AM
Hmm I really cant think of anything to disprove this theory... As far as I remember there are no instances where Snape and Fawkes are seen together. Perhaps that is why Snape was called upon to aid Dumbledore when his arm was injured... that is a possibility. And as for Snape being an unregistered Animagus and his meeting of Dumbledore's disapproval... I disagree... Dumbledore does not hold much stock for laws and rules, especially when a true and just end is met... we have seen this many time... I would doubt if Dumbledore himself was an animagus... so personally, I am going to say until the seventh book, or some solid evidence is put forth... that this theory is completely plausible!
~Albus
TheManekin
Oct 16 2006, 07:31 AM
I think its a great theory. And a lot of thinking a time spent researching. I dont agree with who ever said it was a lttle far-fetched. Its a book not real life! Don't you think the idea of a boy who survives a killing curse and heaps of other stuff is a little far-fetched? I mean come on. really. It's only a book and in books imagination can go wild! But saying that i don't really think tagt Snape is Fawkes. not becasue its too "far-fetched".
but i defently think theres more to Fawkes then meets the eye. Snape would have been able to heal wounds becasue he would know a lot of dark spells and about dark arts. And becasue Snape probably knows what Spells and Enchantments were used on those items he would have had a better idea of what to do. But excellent theory!
SnakeCharmer74
Oct 19 2006, 05:40 PM
QUOTE
i actually want people to prove me wrong, to comeup with definite evidence that snape couldn't possibly be fawkes. anything is possible after all

One thing about Phoenixes is that they are 'pure'. Professor Snape is marred by the Dark Mark. If it were possible for a human to be a phoenix animagus then they wouldn't be able to accept the mark, let alone have the issues that Professor Snape has with the Marauder's and Harry.
Then there's the fact that Professor Snape 'dabbles' in the Dark Arts. Do you really see a phoenix 'dabbling' in Dark Arts?
I think it's a great theory and an awesome discussion topic but I don't think it's very probable. However, stranger things have happened in Harry Potter's world so who knows?
SpiralDance
Nov 22 2006, 07:58 PM
1.Fawkes is more than we think he is
2.Snape is definately more than we think he is...he is brilliant for god's sake...and my favorite character(if he's good, than he's fooling Voldemort, and if he's bad he is betraying Dumbledore.It takes a very smart person to betray one or both of the most powerful wizards in the magic world).
3.Fawkes always helps Dumbledore out.Why is he not there to save Dumbledore from dying?
4.Snape is slimy and dark.So is Fawkes after he is reborn.
Not saying this is theory is true but at least it's built on something and I really tend to believe it.
And i know for sure that if it's not far-fetched, J.K. Rowling won;t use it in her book.Everything she writes is far-fetched, that's the whole beauty of the book.It's like a puzzle.What people would not expect to happen, will.How many of you thought Snape brilliant enough to be the half blood prince, or James Potter to be an arrogant bully when he was 15?
ginnyweasly
Nov 22 2006, 09:01 PM
if snape and fawkes are one and the same, then why did snape kill Dumbledore in HBP?
maia_potter
Nov 22 2006, 09:32 PM
Wow, everytime I read a new theory I get more and more confused :S I really don't know what to think, specially because you gave very good arguments to support your theory...
In spite of the fact that this could be true, I wouldn't like Snape being Fawkes, mm...nope. I don't know why, but I don't like that idea, it's like Fawkes being such a pure animal, so kind and magic and almost divine, turned out to be Snape that regardless if he is evil or not, he has a lot of hatred inside him. I will just meditate this a little more, do some research books, hehe.
xD
baz
Nov 29 2006, 03:51 AM
Sorry if this reason has been already said, but I believe that DD knew he was going to cop it because he and Snape were working together because SNAPE IS GOOD and DD told his pheonix not to get in the way.
I seriously doubt he's a bird.
I had a funny thought...
Imagine if Dumbledore was feeling depressed or something and Snape said 'Ah, Albus, at least you're good at stroking my feathers'.
Dumbledore: 'er...Severus, wha--'
'Never mind! *darn! Cover almost blown!*
hpotter
Dec 10 2006, 04:40 PM
No way!! The only reason why Snape killed Dumbledore is because of the unbreakable vow. If Snape was Fawkes then he could of broke the unbreakable vow and not killed Dumbledore but used another curse that looked like the Avada Kedavra curse and pretended to kill Dumbledore. (long story read the theory in another thread.)
Also an animagus isn't actually the real animal. (if that makes sense) So if snape is an animagus of a phoenix he would not be able to have healing powers or lift heavy loads.
Michiru
Jan 17 2007, 01:54 AM
Oh god, I love that thoery! It is so possible, and you gave such good arguments! But, in the fourth book, Hermione says the animal you become will have to match your personality. I don't think Snape acts like a Phoenix, so...
But, it's not unexpected, of course. And there are lots of reasons why Fawkes would kill Dumbledore (it's all being discussed in the SNAPE IS GOOOOOOOD! Forums), so I have no idea.
jiggery-pokery
Jan 17 2007, 02:12 AM
This is a really good theory but it just doesn’t seem LIKELY! I mean why would Snape come down to the Chamber of Secrets back in book 2 to save Harry from dying? I mean Snape LOATHES Harry. Plus can YOU see Snape as a pheonix? I mean he’s just this arrogant guy who is completely ignorant. Phoenixes are supposed to be kind and helpful. AND if he was a pheonix, don’t snakes hat pheonixes? Like the basilisk in book 2? The cry is fatal to it? Why would Voldy want a death threat to his lovely Nagini?
Albus Dumbledore
Jan 17 2007, 04:47 AM
QUOTE
This is a really good theory but it just doesn’t seem LIKELY!
hmm yes, it is a good theory, and I will agree is mostly not likely.
QUOTE
I mean why would Snape come down to the Chamber of Secrets back in book 2 to save Harry from dying?
Why? Well a number of reasons. He could be fulfilling his life-debt that was carried over from James to Harry. He could also be doing the bidding of Albus Dumbledore. Dumbledore was thrown from the school at the height of the attacks in CoS and would not want Harry to go unprotected.
QUOTE
I mean Snape LOATHES Harry.
I
loathe my math teacher... but I would not allow him to die if I had the chance to save him.
QUOTE
Plus can YOU see Snape as a pheonix?
It would be ironic.. yes. Quite the opposite reallly which is why it is so interesting. Also, Snape is often described as an overgrown bat, or swooping and sweeping with his robes billowing out behind him. Very closely associated to birds... right down to that hooked beak of a nose...
QUOTE
I mean he’s just this arrogant guy who is completely ignorant.
I think not. Severus Snape is one of the most powerful wizards in the World. Whether he is good or bad, he still fooled at least one of the Greatest Wizards (Dumbledore or Voldemort) placing him in third place for skill and power. If he is good, his bravery and courage will be unmatched and he will no doubtedly be one the best wizards ever. His power is already nearing unnapproachable, save Dumbledore or Voldemort.
QUOTE
Phoenixes are supposed to be kind and helpful.
yes
QUOTE
AND if he was a pheonix, don’t snakes hat pheonixes?
I think that Snakes and Phoenixes are enemies which would prove, besides being Albus Dumbledore's pet phoenix, that Snape is not evil.
QUOTE
Like the basilisk in book 2? The cry is fatal to it? Why would Voldy want a death threat to his lovely Nagini?
No, the basilisk and the basilisk only is effected by the crow of a rooster. If it hears it, it will be killed, hence all the dead chickens and roosters at Hogwarts in CoS. Nagini would be uneffected, unless of course she had Basilisk blood in her, and even then, such a genetic strain may not have carried.
While I think Fawkes is just fawkes, I will not rule this out as impossible. It might have been interesting, but I like Fawkes just being the loyal Phoenix to Dumbledore... him being Snape/ Snape being him would complicated that whole scenario unnecesarily!
~Albus
Hermy One
Jan 24 2007, 10:05 PM
i never thought of that idea, It is a little wild but I good idea none the less. i think it is a little suspishis. But why would snape come back to the grounds to sing a lament after HE killed Dd. Anyway, that will give me something else to ponder while a wait for DH.
GreenGred
Jan 29 2007, 04:19 AM
I agree with everyone else. I think this is almost positively not true but it intrigued me none-the-less. i Think there is solid reasoning but im just pretty sure it cant be true
Pum'kin Piglet
Feb 3 2007, 07:40 PM
I think he is Fawkes.
I've been arguing on HPANA for almost a month and it's becoming more of a trial every time I go into that thread. I'm taking a vacation from the bee poop. Thought I'd come in here and relax a while.
synchro spell
Apr 24 2007, 06:34 PM
i can't think of anything to contradict this theory, so your starting to sway my opinion a little. though i still have my doubts. anyway, good job for noticing this!
Herrird
Apr 26 2007, 05:27 PM
This is getting great today I just had another epifiny(a great idea).
First I will go a little offtopic, In pokemon Mew has the power to transform into another pokemons.
How about if fawkes also had the power to transform himself into a human and also it was intelligent and could understand the human writting.
So it could die and then come back to life and it would read the memories written by himself before his own death and this way to know what was happening in the current time.
This theory is very confusing.(sorry about my english)
HGrh fan lover
Apr 26 2007, 07:58 PM
I think this idea has great potential and look forward to deatly hallows
besides according to jk, we haven't seen the last of snape OR fawkes
P.S. Dobby will rule the world (just kidding)
time turner
Apr 28 2007, 02:32 AM
I don't think that they are the same, but you have a great theory. Although there might be a connection between them, that we don't know about.
snapeslittlewitchie
May 1 2007, 07:57 AM
The things you pointed out mostly made sense. I was convinced that although it's really far-fetched, there might be a hint of possibility in it.
But when I read this...
QUOTE(DumbyRocks @ Mar 5 2006, 06:23 AM) [snapback]167312[/snapback]
8) In the end of the HBP, the pheonix left the grounds about the same time Snape probably left Hogwarts. Hmm..
I just didn't think it was possible. Snape already left Hogwarts long before Fawkes did. Fawkes was still lamenting long after Snape left so unless the phoenix is Dumbledore and not Fawkes, that's impossible.
All these theories are messing up my mind! Now I'll really be surprised with what
actually happens in book seven. Can't wait.
LET'S ALL PUT OUR TRUST AND SUPPORT IN MY SNIVELLUS!!!
LooneyLovegood916
May 1 2007, 06:52 PM
I don't believe that Snape is Fawkes....I thought for a long time there is something special about Fawkes...but I thought that maybe Fawkes was DD....but considering DD is dead then that would mean fawkes would die too...and Fawkes can't die cause he gets reborn from his ashes and that DD would be reborn too...anyways...it's a great theory....I hope we see Fawkes again...
time turner
May 2 2007, 02:33 AM
Yes there has to be something special about Fawks, and I don't think that he is DD. I do think that there was a connection between Fawks and DD, so Fawks may have died along with DD. Although I think that Fawks is still alive.
Skittles327
Jul 10 2007, 03:09 PM
Like a lot of theories, this had clues and has been thought out very well. But i just can't believe that it's true. i do applaud you for your time and thought put into this. You do certainly have a smart mind, but I don't agree with your theory.
pottermania001
Aug 2 2007, 11:39 PM
that's an awesom theory but Jk rowlin
» Click to Show Spoiler - Click Again to Hide... «
didn't talk about that in harry potter an the deathly hallows
Witherwings
May 7 2008, 01:25 AM
I'm not saying I completely believe in this theory, but I have to say you have good points and I really like this idea. It makes sense, honestly. I haven't looked through the books to find ways to contradict you, no. Was Fawkes really never in the same scenes as Snape?Though JKR has kept alot of stuff from us, hasn't she? Yet again- as far-fetched but sense-making the theory may be, there's something keeping me from believing it. I'ts still brilliant though, that you took all that time to look through the books and write all that? I'm way too lazy.

I'd do it to save my life, though, haha. You are pretty darn smart though, as Skittles said.
QUOTE
8) In the end of the HBP, the pheonix left the grounds about the same time Snape probably left Hogwarts. Hmm..
I don't think they left together, but I just wanted to say to the people who said this was 'impossible' because Snape left earlier and wouldn't have come back... He could have come back as Fawkes and no one would care; I'm pretty sure no one would have known that SS would have been Fawkes if he
had been Fawkes. And just because 'Snape' left it doesn't mean 'Fawkes' left. What I meant by this is- Snape could have come back, when he's gone it doesn't mean he never comes back!
I have a bit of a problem with the getting 'reborn from the ashes' thing. I doubt SS would be able to do that. It just... wouldn't make sense.
I also remember reading somewhere here on VTM that JKR had said Fawkes would play an important role in DH... I'm pretty 99.9% sure that didn't happen! But what if, what if Fawked
had been Snape? Snape played quite an important role in DH- the whole series, as a matter of fact. So maybe 'Fawkes' (aka Snape,) did play an important role in the books?
Well, I think it's a theory that makes sense and is very smart for coming up with, and it's got lots of clues and not much contradiction canon, and I actually took time to write this post because of that. I just like it so much. But I still don't think Snape was actually Fawkes. I think we would have gotten more hints, by now! Especially that DH is out- it would have been the kind of thing to reveal in the book. I can understand some people might say 'JKR'll put it in the encyclopedia!' but I think it's a bit of unnecessary info all over again. Something big like that should have been in the books by now, and they're done, so... you can't expect much.
QUOTE
i like the idea but the problem is didnt fawkes feathers go in harry and LV wands and Snape is younger then LV? so how could he have given a feather to go in LVs wands if he wasnt born yet? And if Snape was older then why would he goto school around harrys parents time?
That's a
very good point, that's very smart! I wouldn't have thought of that.

I like it. It's entirely true, but again- I didn't say I believe in this theory anyway. That's a true point though.
But great theory, you are quite the brainy one!

I had fun writing this post.
Harry James Potter
May 9 2008, 08:15 PM
I don't think that this theory holds water. Your first point about sectumsempra and wondering how snape knows how to heal it and whether it's because he's a pheonix? Well he knows how to undo the damage done by that curse because he's the one who invented it and wrote it down in that potions book so out of anyone in the wizarding world, snape would know the countercurse.
So here are my counter reasons against this theory...
1) The eyes aren't really that important, I mean you could say tons of things are related just because they have the same eyes, etc. So I don't think that the whole both have dark eyes is important.
2) Fawkes most likely gave a small cry because Harry (who Fawkes has always liked and respected because of Harry's loyalty to Dumbledore) was going against Dumbledore, calling him out, and Fawkes who is loyal to Dumbledore protested.
3) Snape saved Dumbledore in that scenario most likely because one, he is a master at dark arts and would most likely know how to contain the curse. Two, he is very close with Lord Voldemort so he probably knew something about the curse that was on the ring. Three, Dumbledore doesn't want everyone knowing what he's been up to...it would be much better if he just kept this within the Order.
4) Dumbledore's trust was explained in the seventh book, with the whole in love with Lily thing, etc.
5) Dumbledore's claim is in fact true, Snape does know more about the Dark Arts than Madam Pomfrey. If Snape could help Dumbledore after Lord Voldemort's curse on the ring than he certainly can fix Draco Malfoy's curse to some extent.
6) What was building up was the big mystery, was Snape good or bad? Also, the whole Harry related to Voldemort thing and the whole kill or be killed theory.
7) Snape was accounted for. He went into the forest looking for the student group that went to the Department of Mysteries. Then he went to the Order to try and find them and talk to Sirius, who wasn't there.
8) Snape left with Draco and took him to the Malfoys and Lord Voldemort. He would have been with that crowd and could not have escaped to come back to Hogwarts to leave once again as Fawkes. It just doesn't make sense, especially if no one knows Snape is Fawkes.
I really like the theory though because the one fool proof part is the loyalty that both Snape and Fawkes showed to Dumbledore. So, the theory could be correct, I've just chosen the other side. Good theory though, you must have done tons of research for this one.
~HJP