Firstly, I would like to say that I 110% back Snapelover's decision to lock the previous thread. It was getting way out of hand, it was unfriendly and bordering on nasty in there, no one was listening to her warnings and I think that it's best for everyone that thread be confined to the archives.

So, as the thread title says, this is a new start.

This is an open discussion about who the mysterious 'R.A.B' may be. There have been many theories put forward in previous versions of this thread, some of which led to extremely heated debates which hopefully, won't continue to be quite so heated in this new thread.

Most people have already considered the possibility of RAB being Regulus, but this thread will hopefully be able to explore the other possibilities, such as Snape and the 'switcharoo' theory, a bit more positively than was happening in the previous threads.

Remember that this is not a debate thread - it is a discussion. The debates have all been moved to the Great Hall so if you want a more serious debate, I suggest you consider joining the Duelling Club - an explanation of how to apply is in the 'Hogsmeade' forum of the Great Hall.

Above all, please respect the staff in this thread. If they ask you to tone it down, it is in your best interests to listen to them. They are the authority here and they can and will take action if people are as rude, aggressive and confrontational as they have been in previous threads.

Okay...all that being said, the discussion is now open.

Hey everyone! I've been waiting a few hours to let someone else start here, but I've decided to break the ice myself!

So, who could be RAB? Here are a few possible reasons I think Snape could be...

1) You never know where he stands - he's mysterious. So the moment someone mysterious is spoken of, he is automatically a candidate.

2) If he was against LV, he would of course rate himself as someone who would be able to destroy a horcrux.

3) He is brilliant in potions - so he must be very intelligent. He is therefore capable of discovering such a secret and doing something about it.

4) A brilliant Occlumens and Legilimens, in other words, if he could block his own thoughts from LV, he might also be able to read LV's thoughts and so have found out about this horcrux.

What are your thoughts, guys?

ah its good to be back, its good to have a new start
ok straight to the point about who RAB is.
very nice last point capricorn, i had never thought of that myself before, being able to read his mind would be such a great asset to the order, as he knows what voldemort intends to do and his thoughts on certain things.
i am a strong believer that regulus is RAB, but if it were to be snape, then i believ the switcharoo theory must have taken place. if he was working on DDs orders at all times, then i dont see why he would have gone to the cave without DDs knowledge.
snape is mysterious, we never know what side he is on, but regulus is also mysterious because we know very little about him

That is interesting Capricorn...Snape reading Voldemort's mind. I forgot how Dumbledore found out about the cave...but what if Snape told him? Maybe there really was a plan for Dumbledore's death, as in the potion becomes a sort of beacon to Voldemort, like he feel the person drinking it (not physically, but mentally or something); so Dumbledore had to be killed or Voldemort would know that the Horcrux was gone.

If the Black Family Tree is magical (where it records the death's of the family members magically), can it be fooled? Because what if Snape, Regulus, and Dumbledore are working together...and Snape was the middle man...I'm saying this because, from the translation discussion, the B in RAB was the only one to change or remain the same in different languages while the RA was consistent...but lets not get into that..unless you all feel we should of course. "Even put a stopper on death", like Snape said, could have helped Regulus and it made him appear dead or something. Isn't Voldemort supposed to be dead? If he had the Gaunt Family Tree, I'd bet it would say that he died in 1981 (that was the year right?), because is immortality the same as life and death.

Sorry for going off topic...

Just something to think about, I can't piece it together right now, but maybe someone else can. Or is it too crazy

Hey guys!
I think, what capricorn said could be right, but now i'm more convinced that RAB is Regulus Black for several reasons.
When i read HBP for the first time, i directly thought about Sirius' dead brother.

Then i'v read discussions in here about the locket, being mentioned in OotP (something like: "cleaning the rooms in Grimmauld's place, they also found a locket wihich none of them could open." If this was a horcrux, LV wouldn't like it been opened (maybe then it could be destroyed?) and one theory was about the horcruxes hurting several parts of the humans body, like DD's hand hurt by the ring).

So what did i want to say?

Oh yeah: we know that Rab was a deatheater, so he may have had some secret information about the horcruxes (GoF: LV: "you (the deatheaters), who knew the steps i have gone to immortality, farer than evreryone else."

But if Snape was good, they could have planned Dumbledores death for making harry get the fact, that HE will have to kill LV and no one else could help him.
Snape killing DD could also be a possibility for Snape to proof, that he really is loyal to LV, who may have begun mistrusting snape...
And what if Dumbledore was an unknown animagus (there also is a forum topic), a phoenix. This would explain the flames at his funeral and his extraordinary connection to Fawks.
This would mean, that DD is not dead and may reappear i book seven.

But i'm going too far now, what I wanted to say is, I think That RAB is Regulus A. Black.
What about you?

Yeah, what if Regulus wrote the note - arrogant squirt that he maybe was, but he was taking credit for what Snape had done. The 'dicovered you secret' thing. So Snape, Regulus and Dumbledore knew - but only Regulus knew that he had removed the horcrux. Snape and Dumbledore didn't and that is why Dumbledore thought he and Harry would go and get it.

Ok, so how did it play out? Snape found out about it, told Dumbledore. I think though that he's information wasn't complete enough to confirm that it was a horcrux. Remember, Dumbledore needed Slughorn's memory to confirm it.

Meanwhile, Regulus was maybe trying the same route as Snape in turning spy for the good side (if Wormtail can be a spy, Regulus can), and had approached Dumbledore. Dumbledore obviously trusted Regulus. Maybe Regulus had to help Snape steal it from the cave.

Wanting to prove himself though (arrogance again), he went alone first, without anybody knowing. He succesfully stole it, hid it at home, but was killed before he could figure out how to destroy it. So Snape and Dumbledore still thought the horcrux was in the cave, but maybe decided that it wasn't a good time to try again. Snape's movements might have becoma suspicious to LV or something.

Before they could try again though, Harry defeated LV, and thinking that LV was dead, they supposed it hadn't been a horcrux after all.

But once Voldemort returned, Dumbledore realised they had been right. So he somehow found the ring, and then took Harry to the cave. Snape couldn't take since they hated each other too much.

Also, Dumbledore knew Malfoy was getting close to hatching a plan. Harry had told him of hearing Malfoy 'whoop for joy' in the Room of Requirement. He realised time was running out for him and Harry to go. So he knew that it was now or never and that as soon as he and Harry went, the D-E's would come, Malfoy would try to kill him once he returned and Snape would have to step in. So he needed to set his death up on his own terms so that he and Harry could at least get the horcrux before he died. Also, by doing this he could have a stab at converting Malfoy...

Shees, if this is true I'll eat my hat. Imagine poor Jk's attempt to fit this into the exposition of book7.

Heyyyyy! Who is the first person Dumbledore wants Harry to call once they return - - - Severus! He tells Harry to go to him, tell him what happened and tell no-one else! Oh my word...

Capricorn, thats a great theory...in my opinion at least.

Wait, in your theory, when was the real Horcrux stolen by Regulus? It would have to be after the prophecy because Snape turned good after hearing it...or part of it...right? Or are you saying that Regulus was a spy for Dumbledore and died in 1979 after he stole the Horcrux but never told Dumbledore...or was going to...but still took all the credit (from the note)? Then, Dumbledore needed a new spy, and in comes Snape...

Or is it like I said about the BFT being fooled, and Regulus is either still alive or died later? Because if they were all working together it would have to be after Snape turned good...is that right?

This is really good!!!!!
The idea of DD, snape and regulus working together to get the horcruxes (or at least RAB taking advantage of it). What a Genius!
But why'd Snape then kill Dd? Couldn't he kill the deatheaters and tell LV that Dd did this or somebody else so that he could return to LV and DD would still be alive and able to fight against LV?
Getting little late now, maybe i'm kinda confused...

But one addition, I dunno if there's another topic talking about it, the fact that DD and Harry couldn't take the locket out of the potion, because there was the same spell on it as used in Hogwarts, blockading the door (for non-deatheaters) to the tower where DD was killed. This would mean, that regulus could've taken the locket out of the potion without having to drink it...
this doesn't have to be important, but may be interesting

Oh. Yeah. But what if, like you said the tapestry has been fooled. Then the date of his supposed/faked death could be totally wrong. I doubt that anyone would have noticed. Sirius hated the tapestry, so he was not about to examine the dates on it. Regulus might have dissapeared after Snape had turned good, but to cover his tracks he did some kind of magic that automatically fooled the tapestry.

I mean, the Goblet of Fire was fooled. And it is a really old and powerful magical object. The Black family tapestry can't be much older or more powerful.

Oh, DoubleD, I think Snape killed Dumbledore because that was part of him and Dumbledore's plan following the Unbreakable vow. Snape was kind of put on the spot, he had to make the vow. But he didn't want to kill Dumbledore himself, so he desperately tried to help Draco and let him do it. A bit irrational, I know, but what would you do if you had to kill your dad (or father figure in this case) because someone else failed.

i like the theory capricorn.
i dunno why but i just have the feeling that regulus is still alive, with all the hints DD mentions about people faking their deaths, and the mysteriousness about it. And its never mentioned how he ever betrayed the DEs
anyways theres a few things that im not sure about in yoour theory, and if its ok i'll make some moderations as to how i think it could be improved.
a very good point about snape reading vl's mind to find out about the location of the locket, but i dont agree with the whole arrogance thing and going there by himslef, i would say that if regulus were still to be alive, that he would have made the switch when DD was dead

What if Regulus made the drop while the events of book 6 were going on? What if another person is on this...Aberforth?

As crazy as this may sound...just hear me out.

Going along with Capricorn's theory, and taking Kirkstain's "rebuttal" if thats what its called, along with the locket in Grimmauld Place, maybe theres even more going on...

The house didn't go to Regulus because he was thought dead, even the BFT said so. Regulus faked his death and went "undercover" for himself and for no one else, but benefiting everyone (by getting the Horcrux). So if he's thought dead, he doesn't want Voldemort to know, or Dumbledore (and therefore the death eaters and Ministry/Order/Aurors). Not sure why...So he wants to get the locket back. Mudungus and Aberforth do it for him...because Mudungus steals it and Aberforth buys it off of him (maybe under the imperious curse set off by Regulus). I'm guessing that since he doesn't want to be known by either side, it means he doesn't trust anyone anymore...especially Snape since he seems so mysterious and is questionable on his loyalty.

So Dumbledore and Harry go to the cave and take out the fake without knowing they had the fake. Snape, after killing Dumbledore, goes back to get the Horcrux but discovers its true contents and leaves as quickly as he arrived...or he didn't come at all...whichever. Now Regulus probably knows Harry has the note, and doesn't know what to do, because once its seen by Voldemort or someone else; maybe they'll know he's still alive.

Did I mess up the theory again?

Just a question, I haven't got a reply ready yet...

If he's still alive, how would you guys help me explain the "I know I will be long dead" bit. Why would JK put this in if she intended Regulus not to be long dead at all? Seems silly then, because I doubt she would want to mislead us on purpose. Same with the Black Family tree (with his death on). It's not her style to put in fluff on important moments like this. Everything would have significance.

I want to think he's dead too, 'cause then Snape will be explained to some degree, but I can't think of a loophole past this. Otherwise Snape's role will be reduced to only telling Dumbledore, and being in on the secret - and then we're back to square one, 'cause then Regulus, as a lone agent, has to be RAB or not involved at all, which I don't think he is.

too much reading, im tired, but i get the gist!

er, my belief is that RAB is NOT Regulus Black due to the fact its way to obvious and i'll be dissapointed to the brink of hurting people....ok, maybe not that far. there are ideas floating about, due to the fact that dumbledore needed harry, that there was more than one person involved. Possible, but improbable, for it was written in first person (using the identifier 'I'). Thusly the wizard involved had to be powerful to the extreme. There are few candidates for that, and even fewer who fit into the RAB initials.

So my ideas are that either -

its someone we know, thusly authenticating JKR's statement that it is not a new character, but the initials RAB stands for something we dont know, a nick name or a womens maiden name.

OR

RAB is an acronym. for what i dont know, (retaliation against baddies?!..im joking ofcourse) It still doesnt help with the identifier of 'I".

in the end i think its one of the most anticipated parts of the final book discovering who RAB is...and personally, I can't wait.

To be honest, it being too obvious is a bad excuse I mean that in a joking manner...just in case you were thinking I meant it differently.

In my opinion, its either Regulus or Snape, with B always being Black (translation 'fiasco')

"I know I will be dead long before you read this"
Perhaps Regulus, if he's alive, thought Voldemort would never in his mind come to the conclusion that Regulus would go behind his back like that...in such an extreme manner too. So Regulus thought he would die of natural causes before Voldemort did him in, or found out. Imagine how Regulus would have taken it upon hearing that Harry and Dumbledore had come across it...or maybe he didn't hear or else Voldemort would have heard just as easily. My thoughts are going everywhere on this, so I'll get back to you all on this once I'm thinking more clearly

RAB does mention his death two times in his note. He says "I know I will be dead long before you read this" (or however it goes) and "I face death in hoping you meet your match.." (Or however that goes). It seems this person is pretty confident he is going to be dead.

A lot of people seem to be really sure Regulus is dead. Sirius seems sure of it, Lupin seemed sure of it. The tapestry seemed sure of it. But I don't know. I think Regulus is dead, mainly because I think his brother would know if he died or not.

Plus if Regulus was still alive, why hadn't he cme back for the locket in Grimmauld place? (Course I'm one of the people who think the #12 locket is the real horcrux.) I fit was RAB's original intent to destroy the horcrux (whether he be Regulus or not) I think he would come back for what he worked so hard to retrieve. Maybe its just me.

Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

Thats true Droobles.

I think I've shifted focus (maybe because nobody was posting in here for two days!)

Whoever RAB was had to know there was more than one Horcrux, or else he/she wouldn't have written "...hope that you will be mortal once more". Just more than one...could have thought there was two, not five at the time (supposedly). Also, he had to know there was more than one because he knew he wouldn't be alive to see Voldemort's downfall (maybe he thought he would die of old age before Voldemort came across the note...then RAB would know that if he had died of old age before Voldemort who was older than him...you get the picture...I think).

I also, now at least...a majority of the time, believe that the locket in Grimmauld Place is the real Horcrux, therefore it has to be (in this theory) a Black, primarily and most likely of the candidates Regulus. This means as well that Voldemort doesn't know his Horcrux is gone, no one to his knowledge has gone to the cave...no one has destroyed his Horcrux.

So if Regulus is RAB, he would have had to done some research (mind reading, overhearing things, maybe Slughorn). Slughorn mentioned he had some sort of ties to Regulus. Maybe he brought up how great Tom Riddle was at school, and Regulus wanted to know more...and joined the death eaters for a different reason. That being not to gain power, but to bring down the evil menace. He was already leaving when he joined up...if that makes sense. Slughorn told Regulus about the Horcruxes, because if they had conversations about Tom Riddle eventually it would have turned to that subject. Possibly already viewed as a good recruit to be a death eater, he joins up. He already had knowledge before he joined, just from Slughorn of course, but maybe that was enough...so he already knew that he couldn't kill Voldemort and knew that he would probably die giving his hand in his downfall. Perhaps Slughorn was what Dumbledore was to Harry...so he told things to Regulus that he wouldn't tell to other students (Dumbledore wouldn't tell what he tells to Harry to say...Collin Creavy would he?) The only reason why Slughorn would do this is because of the simple fact that Regulus is a Black, a most ancient and noble prize to him.

Just getting info on the Horcruxes and what Tom Riddle did wouldn't have been enough for Regulus to up and join and want to kill Voldemort. If Voldemort exerted his real authority and made his real plans known during the 70's, would Regulus join up if his parents knew Voldemort's true colors by then? Wasn't it said that the Blacks supported Voldemort until his true colors were shown? Maybe Regulus joined for the genuine reason of destroying a part of Voldemort's soul...and maybe Walburga (his mother) died a proud mother thinking her son had a part in Voldemort's supposed death (she died in 1985). So now I think Orion (his father) died after Regulus, defending Regulus or helping him...but Regulus stole the Horcrux with Kreacher's help after learning somehow of where the cave was.

I know why I didn't post! Sorry, but all the theories about RAB being someone else seem to collapse eventually. I didn't trust myself to comment on this, because Michelle asked if we could steer this thread in another direction. (Snape and the switcheroo theory).

I've tried, honestly, but it always ends up being 'probably Regulus' or him being the note writer or whatever. We're back on nitpicking the details of how Regulus did it (not that I don't love doing that!) because no fool proof Snape-theory has surfaced yet - and he's second in the running!

So anyway, whereto from here?

i agree! exept i'm prety sure Regulus is R.A.B it kinda fits cause Sirius said voldemort killed him cause he got so far and backed out, but i reckon it's cause he got so far and realised that it was wrong so he went after the horcrux.

Can anyone fill the following gaps in the switcheroo-thingy? (I have previously asked, but no-one responded):

The above mentioned theory says that Snape took the horcrux post-cave. According to some, he did it while Harry was extinguishing the fires in Hagrid's hut. How did he enter the grounds without Buckbeak killing him?
Yes DD took spells off the castle grounds, but they were only the ones he put on it, the book says that, and I think the Apparation-block was on the school long before DD went there!

Secondly

Why would Snape take the horcrux from Harry, the person he knew was destined to kill LV? He knew Harry went with DD to get the horcrux.
Someone said he did it because he thought Harry wasn't powerful enough. But we know that Harry has already destroyed a horcrux: the diary.
And he did that by sticking a tooth thru it?!

One might argue that Snape did not know this, but we must remember: Snape certainly has the most knowledge of the Dark Arts except for LV and DD (who is, unfortunately, now deceased).

Well, I'll try to answer as best as I can for you, Aslan.

1. How did Snape come back? Well, I'm one of the people who think Dumbledore never fully removed the school spells but only took them off so they could slide in. I also don't think it was Snape and I also don't think it was post cave. But I'll try to put in perspective as best I can. So how did Snape get past Buckbeak? If they charms from the school really were lifted, he could've just Apparated straight to Dumbledore and that would've helped him pass right over Buckbeak. If he still couldn't apparate however, I'm not really sure how he would've made it by. I do agree with you that maybe the Apparition charms on the school were done way before Dumbledore, but he still obviously knew how to operate all of them since he temporarily took them off.

2. Why would Snape take it? I think Snape is evil, so maybe he took it so Harry would not destroy it. But if Snape was good, perhaps he took it because...he wanted a little revenge on Voldemort himself maybe? I don't know. This may be a question for those who support Snape in this way. I think it is peculiar that the diary was so easily destroyed. But I mean, it's basically just leather bound paper, so...and basilisk venom is killer so I think Harry did a pretty good thing stabbing the diary. But why Snape would want to take the locket from Harry I don't know. And him leaving a note sfter taking it stumps me even more.

Sorry if I didn't help since I really don't agree with any of that stuff anyway. Perhaps someone else could help you more.

I've considered Snape coming back through apparation before. To me, thats the only way, otherwise I don't think he could have gotten back...as you said Aslan, Buckbeak was there circling the gates. However, I'm one of those who thinks that Snape didn't go back...I guess other ways is that he simply ran all the way back while Harry was helping Hagrid, but how come the Order members and DA didn't mention Snape coming back?

I think Snape is good, and if Snape is good, then I think he took it to help Harry. But why take it and leave a note for Harry to add to his search? If he's bad, then he took to give back to Voldemort...I dunno...theres more possibilities though.

Just a very quick note - this is much, much, much better, guys This is a nice, friendly, open discussion which is exactly what we wanted to see. No confrontations, no aggression, just a nice, pleasant exchange of views. BTW, I didn't mean to imply that I wanted the thread to take a particular direction - I just want everyone to be able to express their opinions without fear of being attacked by anyone else...which is what you've all been doing.

Seal of approval... You may continue!!

Yeah, I think Regulus was really naïve when he joined. Like the Black family in general. Think about it - you have to be (apart from arrogant) really naïve if you think that only people of your kind are worthy of living, the odds being 1 to millions for pure-blood wizards to the rest of everybody!

So yes, Regulus I think only wanted out after he saw what Voldemort was really doing. I still like to think that it is a story of bravery (maybe I'm just really taken by that), but it links with the whole thing about doing what you think is right despite of where you come from. Regulus, a notorious Black and pure-blood, will play a crucial role in destroying Voldemort by sacrificing his life.

Ooooh, I like that. The Black family will at last be redeemed by their last two sons - Sirius and Regulus both died valiantly in the battle against the Darkest Wizard of all times...

What about the dates though? Voldemort showed his true colors in the 70's if I'm not mistaken, so why would Regulus join to impress his parents if they were against Voldemort's true tactics? That led me to:

-Regulus only joined the death eaters for the soul purpose of having a hand in Voldemort's defeat
-Regulus got a lot of information from Slughorn and just needed confirmation and locations of Horcruxes from Voldemort or death eaters who knew

Also, sorry for repeating myself, but Regulus died in 1979...which means that he either graduated in '79 or '78. Thats at least 6 or 7 months, or at most a year and a year and two months (unless my math is wrong). Either way, it would have been plenty of time to get the necessary info, especially since the Blacks were regarded as one of the best familys (I think), similarly to the Malfoys, which could or could not give them seniority over lesser family's or ones that aren't as "ancient and most noble". Not that Voldemort would suddenly give information like that out to anybody...

Any ideas on how Regulus found out the location...if RAB is Regulus? I know its been asked before, but maybe we can divulge into it even more...

Ok so it seems the most obvious answer to RAB is Regulus Black. He was a past supporter and follower of Lord Voldemort as Sirius mentions in the beginning of the OotP. Also. in his note to Lord Voldemort he adresses him as the Dark Lord and says he discovered his secret which would lead one to believe that he knew Voldemort personally, thus making sense that Regulus (a past supporter) would be RAB. Now that that is out of the way my two questions about RAB are: Did he change the orignial potion surrounding the horcrux making it something new that he didn't drink when he got to the real horcrux? And, why didn't RAB destroy the horcrux right away? During the cleaning of #12 Grimmuald Place (Regulus Blacks's past residence) the unopenable locket was thrown into the rubbish pile, so now it could be anywhere.

Ti the question if RAB made a new potion:
The spell which made it impossible for Dumbledore and Harry to touch the potion, couldn't this be the same spell like the one being used to stop all the non-death eaters from the tower where DD was killed?
So You needed to be a death eater to take the locket, which thus would be no problem for Regulus...

And like said in the beginning of HBP, Regulus survived only a few days (i guess lupin said it) and the piece of paper said something like "i want to destroy it as soon as i can"- so he just didn't have enough time. Maybe he didn't know exactly how to do it (or he'd hidden it) and wanted to wait untill he was sure, but he wwas killed before...

To the switcharoo theory:
we all think that it was impossible for snape to exchange the locket before he escaped from the hogwarts ground and Buckbeak, don't we?
I just had one idea that snape could've put imperio on one of the students, but none of them saw him running away I guess, and he, of course, didn't have the time, did he?
But i don't think that the spells were removed so he couldn't have apparated.

But if Snape really managed to change the lockets (in a way i have no idea how) its nearly obvious why:
If he's good, than he did it to protect harry (we saw what the ring did to DD'S hand and we're talking about Dumbldore!), or amybe as a personal revenge to LV.
If Snape's evil, than he did it to save the horcrux from being destroyed (although i don't believe hat he would think Harry would manage it to destroy such a powerful thing...).

But as i said before, i don't believe in the switcharoo thing but that the unopenable locket in Grimmauld's place was the horcrux, whereever it is now...


(((Just one little thing which doesn't realy belong here: does anybody know if J.K. Rowling visits this site from time to time?)))

hey guys its empty!! no oldies anymore??

Maybe the locket in #12 was really old and you couldn't tell there was an "S" on it. Just a thought, but I thought I might suggest it. And when it says "a locket that none of them could open" would that mean the kids or the Order members? What if Harry didn't try to open it? Course I don't think anyone besides the people clening that day would've noticed the locket, so I guess it would've had to be just the kids. What if someone with stronger magical abilities had tried it? Would they have found something?

My post is turning into 21 questions...

I don't think the locket could already have the horcrux out of it or else it should've been easier to open. I think there was a reason the locket could not be opened and had very little description.

Maybe we could list all possible suspects and then present our thoughts on each one. Trying to think of something to discuss... if that's okay with everyone, I'll post a list next time or you can just post a few people, present your argument for each and everyone can build off of that.

I'll give a short list while Droobles gets the full list...keep in mind, though, that these are some I may have come up with, others have come up with, and just what people have suggested in the past

-Regulus
-Snape
-Dumbledore
-Brutal-Faced Death Eater (BFDE)
-Arabella Figg
-Bellatrix
-Rudolphus
-Rabastan
-Barty Crouch Jr.
-Horace Slughorn
-Borgin
-Rosmerta
-Aberforth
-or RAB is a code for something else

I don't think thats all the suspects...though I think we're starting all over again Which is fine with me, it'll help eliminate certain people and broaden our understanding of the others...

The title to this thread is "A New beginning" so it may benefit to redo all of this stuff in a more 'sensical' way. I think I just made up a word.

That list is pretty good, but I'd like to add
Orion
Regulus (the older one)
and I really can't think of any others mentioned. There were some mentioned being there that night like
Madame Maxime
Alecto
Amycus
Lupin
Moody
and the sort, but I'm not really sure if they are real high on the suspect list. Are there any others? And if not, should we just do three or four at a time, or just take a whack at all of them together?

Maybe everyone who wants, can post who they think is the least likelyist (if thats a word) with reasons behind why they think that...while also adding at the end who they think is the most likely candidate with reasons behind that too.

I'll hold off for now though...its getting kind of late here.

wow finally the new thread yippie.

anyways i have a few things here

snape using legimency on voldemort.......not so sure about that one Voldemort doesnt trust anyone. i dont think that he would let someone perform legimency on him. he is to powerfull. you need eye contact to perform legimency. i just cant see voldemort looking someone in the eyes when he talks to them. giving eye contact in a conversation means respect. that would be beneath him. he doesnt respect anyone. except mabye harry.

as for the whole mabey the family tree can be altered. i mentioned that like 4 pages into the old thread and it got shot down immediately, but i am glad that someone else said it b/c i really thought i had something there.
i am not going to throw my sence on this one yet. i am interested in hearing what everyone else thinks first before i restate my ideas.
but i will say i think that reagulas did try to fool the tree and make himself appear dead

Okay, I'll categorize them based from yours and my lists; then give the reasons...(in my opinion)

Could be RAB (the name, nickname, or code):
Regulus Black
Snape
Brutal-Faced Death Eater

Helpers or had some sort of hand in the "plan" intentionally or not:
Dumbledore
Moody
Rosmerta
Aberforth
*the last three I'm not entirely sure about because it depends on the theory

Snape as RAB: If he had some sort of part in helping the Potters he would have wanted the world to know that it was he who had saved the day this time, since he's been so bitter to Harry ever since he's been at Hogwarts. However, the note was addressed to Voldemort, not to a random person or group calling attention to himself.

With that aside (not wanting attention or something else) he may have said that he wanted Voldemort to know that it was him to protect Harry or anyone else...the RA parts remaining (somehow) consistant in most languages and B changing because its 'black' or something else. Not much reasoning yet, but I'm sure someone else can come up with something better

BFDE as RAB: We know too little this character, though we can say that he is Regulus or anyone else...but if he is Regulus then read on...

Regulus as RAB: We also know little about him, though we were told that he was in Slytherin, joined the death eaters out of Hogwarts, and was killed in 1979 by Voldemort or on his orders (dying the same year as his father Orion).

For now I'll hold off going into details, since I might be repeating myself a lot...so basically this was a preliminary thing..that is if we keep doing this

I must go with Regulus Black.. It just feels right.. And one thing that confirmed my thoughts was when book 6 released in finnish I found out that R.A.B was R.A.M in finnish.. And the name Black is translated Musta in finnish.. And the first name of Regulus Black is the same in finnish too.. So the abbreviations match to Regulus Black in both languages.. And as we know Jo has to tell the HP movie directors and the translators some points that are important..
I'm lil tired so I can only hope you understand my point..

illuminetti and lily were both rude and obnoxious and therefore have been restricted from posting. Illuminetti has been suspended for some time for being exceptionally abusive to members of staff as well as other members via PM which was not acceptable. So I wouldn't go holding my breath for replies from either of them.

Just to let you know the state of play.

El Barto? Is that you crsdba? Cool name!

Anyway, I think that if Regulus jr was not RAB, it would be a Black family member. Not just because of the translation thing - like putouter mentioned - but because of the family tree and all the hullabaloo made over it. And the fact that the Blacks are fascinating! They are the family JK has directly juxtaposed to the Weasleys.

The Differences:
Muggles - the Weasleys do not see Muggle-borns in a different light than pure-bloods and are fond of Muggles. The Blacks are the worst pure-blood snobs. They even disinherit their own relatives for having doings with muggles, mud-bloods and muggle-lovers. So although both families have the 'right' ancestry, they handle it differently. Also, the Weasleys go to Gryffindor, and the Blacks to Slytherin - they symbolise the oldest rivalry in wizard history.

Wealth - The Weasleys are poor, but good people to the core. Their judgement of the world is not obscured by money. They achieve their goals fairly and without bribes. They are a happy family. The Blacks are fithy rich - literally. They donate money and receive Orders of Merlin, 1st class for it. Their wealth makes them look down even on a pure-blood family like the Weasleys. They have a sad history - relatives ripped from their family tree. It's symbolic that it's Mrs. Black's fate to shout and wail from her portrait for eternity...

Survival - The Weasleys have 7 children, of which 6 are males. The line is far from diminishing. The Blacks have now lost the last of their sons - the line is now extinct. A warning to the prejudice of the Evil side - a foreshadowing of who will prevail?

So here comes the crux: the Black family will be absolved to a dergree, their name restored in honour as it once was centuries ago, before the wizarding community split when Slytherin left Hogwarts. Forgiveness was one of Dumbledore's greatest traits. He also believed in choice. I think that someone from the Black family finally made the right choice just in time, before the line became extinct. By helping in bringing Voldemort down, this Black chose as a Weasley would have chosen - for equality, freedom and love.

Sounds a bit like the French Revolution - but that fits doesn't it?

I guess I should do my categorization then...

Could be RAB
Regulus Black
Severus Snape

Helpers with the plans
Albus Dumbledore
Severus Snape (in the event he is not RAB)
Aberforth Dumbledore
BFDE
Rosmerta (against her will I assume)
Orion Black (with Regulus?)

Regulus Black as RAB:To me, Regulus fits a lot of the things we have. We don't know a whole lot about him, but I do think we know enough. We were told about his history, his death, and we know his birth and a few things that happened during his life. He was called stupid, but that's coming from his brother, so that can't entirely be trusted. Many theories have been proposed about him, and I think he has been very well covered, and as of now, I think he is the most probable one we have.

Severus Snape as RAB: Ah, dear Severus. He has more flip-flops than a house of pancakes. As I still question whether Severus is good, it is hard for me to say why he would be RAB. He's always been really hateful toward Harry, but he has also gone out of his way to make sure Harry is safe. Did he do that because he really does have a heart or was he thinking about his Dark Lord the whole time? And the RAB initials have always been a problem for me with Severus. He's just so questionable...I don't really know what to say.

I honestly don't think anyone besides these two could do it, and I'm even skeptical about Severus. It all kind of just seems to put us right back at square one, no matter what we do. Does anybody have any theories or anything else they would like to add? If not, El Barto, you can take it away. Your name makes me laugh.

When I refer to a helper, I mean somehow they had a part in the tale...not actually helping RAB...know what I mean?

One scenario had Dumbledore and Harry returning to Hogsmeade after the cave then Rosmerta made the switch when Harry was getting the brooms. However, after thinking about it some more, that would mean that Draco would be RAB since he had the imperious curse on her. Or Regulus could have returned after learning that Dumbledore had gone away (and in which case he somehow knew where he was going)...or the BFDE did it (whether Regulus or not).

Then there was a similar one, but involved Aberforth, and Mudungus. Mudungus stole it and sold it to Aberforth (against his will because someone imperioused him...in my opinion that someone would be Snape, Regulus or the BFDE). Aberforth then gave it to Rosmerta who did the switch.

However, the switch could have happened later with Snape doing it (apparating back because Dumbledore may have lifted the enchantments, or managed to run back while Harry was helping Hagrid). Though there are multiple scenarios for the switch after the cave scene, I'm leaning more to pre-cave with Regulus.

If Orion and Regulus died the same year, one can speculate that something must have happened between the two. Voldemort killed his father, or Orion died protecting his son, or anything else... We also know Kreacher is all messed up upstairs. Could it be that Regulus took Kreacher to drink the potion for him, against his will since he was ordered to? I think its possible, though I think its more important to figure out how Regulus, or anyone for that matter, found out about the Horcruxes, and the cave.

What is everyone's theory on that? How would someone have found out about both of those?

In my opinion, I think Slughorn has something to do with giving information to Regulus, if he is RAB.

hey

umm well i definitly think that the blacks have there part to play in numero siete, but until then we can guess why they died in the same year, im thinking that it had something to do with the horcrux what about you guys?

peace

Yeah, it's a definite possibility. Maybe it was protected by a curse that killed you, so when Orion handled it (at whatever point) he was killed. So Regulus didn't dare to try it himself, but he got killed by Voldemort or some other Death Eater before he could figure out what to do next...