There is something about 'Sectumsempra' scene that puzzles me:

There was a loud bang and the bin behind Harry exploded; Harry attempted a Leg-Locker Curse that backfired off the wall behind Malfoy's ear and smashed the cistern beneath Moaning Myrtle, who screamed loudly; water poured everywhere and Harry slipped as Malfoy, his face contorted, cried, "Cruci —"
"SECTUMSEMPRA!" bellowed Harry from the floor, waving his wand wildly.

People mostly discussed whether or not Harry meant to hurt Draco so badly. But I have another question: it takes time to utter 'sectumsempra' - Draco could've finished 'crucio' by then. Did he falter? Did he missed? Or his Cruciatus was as ineffective as Harry's in OotP?

Well since Harry didn't know what Sectumsempra did, we can't really tell how bad he wanted to hurt Malfoy. I think it was just the first thing that popped into his had. Also I think that Harry and Malfoy were saying their two curses and the same time, which is hard to portray in writing, since you can only use one person's dialogue at a time. I don't think that Malfoy's Cruciatus curse would have been very effective, if even effectice at all. Harry utterly despise Snape, I mean he had just killed DD right in front of Harry, and Harry's curse didn't work. But I think that Harry and Draco were starting to talk very close to the same time. In Harry acting quicker, JK has now prevented Draco from using the AK curse and the Cruciatus curse. Could this mean something more important later??

i think thats just the way the writing went its really hard to convey the time of saying something, also even if malfoy was to use the cruciatus curse i highly think it would have been unaffective even though he has some knowledge of dark magic(he has to look at his parents) harry tried using the curse with very little effect and we've seen harry do way more advanced things then Draco.

Also, Harry had been practicing non-verbal curses. You can think words faster than you can say them, about 5X faster. But I really think Malfoy just missed with his Crucio.

I've always wondered why more Death Eaters didn't use Sectum Sempra. It's such a good machine gun, much more dangerous than Avada Kedavera, and easier to use.

Antonin Dolohov may have tried to use Sectum Sempra on Hermione in OotP, as she did a lip-locking curse on him. Or it may have been a similar but less-effective curse he used.

I think it was partly a sign of Snape's secretiveness, and partly a sign of his secret goodness, thathe has not taught Sectum Sempra to many Death Eaters, or to VL himself.

I agree with Cesador, I think it's difficult to portray two people saying something at the same time in writting unless you come right out and say "They said it at the same time". I was under the impression that Draco and Harry say their spells at the same time, or possibly even Harry begins his first. Draco only gets time to say "cruci-" before Harry's incantation begins to take effect.

I think Harry started his spell faster than Draco... because sectumsempra is longer than crucio... But maybe Draco didn't know what to do and though by the time when Harry said the spell... [COLOR=red]

i always just thought that halfway through his "crucio", harry's 'bellowing" caught him off guard, and he lost his track of thought. surely there is more to as spell like the cruciatus curse than waving a wand and saying a word. i think draco was distracted as harry yelled, and started to worry about protecting himself (he wouldn't have recognised the spell) but caught of guard, he didn't have time.

that's my idea, anyway. *shruggs*

Exactly. Bellatrix told Harry that he had to really want to cause pain and enjoy it. After seeing how Malfoy acted on the Astronomy Tower, I have to wonder if he has the gumption to do it.

Bellatrix also said that Harry's righteous anger wouldn't hurt her for long, implying that only a truly evil heart could efeectively employ the Cruciatus Curse.

Thats it Bellatrix is the DE I was looking for, thanks . Even if Harry/Draco really did want to cause pain, I don't think that either of them would really enjoy watching it. Harry just because he's Harry, and the Tower scene is a good example for Draco. Neither of them really want to turtore someone else and enjoy watching it.

Precisely, 7. Draco is alot like a chocolate frog, methinks. He's only got one good jump in him. He used up that one good jump when he let the DE's in. He didn't have the guts to off DD, and it was quite obvious. Harry even felt sorry for him after that.

I'm pretty much echoing what everyone else said. I agree with them speaking at the same time. I also think that Draco was saying his spell slowly. Perhaps he felt that since Harry was on the floor that he had him beat. Harry probably screamed his spell much faster than Draco was ready for.

I agree think that, more than them speaking at the same time, there were (in my mind) 2 factors that kept Draco from completing the curse. First, he’d just been startled and caught in a moment of weakness. He’s been crying and he’s vulnerable and he feels overwhelmed. With all that going on, I think it’d be hard to focus your mind fully on torturing someone, especially when I’m not convinced that he would truly have enjoyed it, which does seem to be essential.
Second, Harry was waving his wand wildly and suddenly used a spell that I don’t think Draco has heard of. Or, if he has, I don’t think he would expect Harry to know it. He was more than likely caught way off guard, for a second time, which is rather disconcerting. I don’t think, given the circumstances, there’s any way that Draco could have adequately completed the curse.

It happens alot. They say an unforgivable curse and it doesnt work because someone yells over the top. it alwasy happen to Avada Kedavra. they alwasy say "Avada-" and then some one yells something else over it. I just think that maybe malfoy stopped becasue of the loudness of harrys voice or it cut him out i duno.

um it's hard to say maybe malfoy didn't really want to hurt harry maybe he just couldn't do it or maybe they like froze time and well you no what i mean like as soon as harry heard the start of the spell he started but i think malfoy really didn't want to even though he hated him so much he still couldn't do it maybe malfo actully has a good side eh?!

Uhm well maybe it would of worked for Malfoy, because has had so much hatrid built up, for the people making fun of him, his dad in jail, his hate for Harry, and Lord Voldemort for making him do something he didnt want to do, so yes, I think it would be possible that it would of done some damage to Harry.

I think that harry just blurted the spell out when draco just started uttering the unforgivable curse. it has also been mentioned in the series that harry's instinct has made me quick so another reason.
Cherio!

I think harry should not be blamed for saying the sectumsempra curse because Draco was just about 2 say crucio which is an unforgiveable curse

If Harry had not yelled out sectemsempra before Draco yelled out crucio, the end results wouod have been terrible! Draco knew that this as an unforgivable curse, but since he was working under orders given by Voldy, he was probaly told to use anything he could to protect himself against those that interferred with what he was suppossed to be doing.

i agree. Draco definately knew that he was about to use an unforgivable curse, but was kind of forced to by Voldy. he was probably just trying to protect himself because harry has been know to duel well in the past. and i actually also believe that harry didnt mean to hurt draco that bad, it was just an accident that the spell wa so dangerous.

Well, someone might have beat me to this (and since I'm pressed for time I can't read the whole thread at the moment) but I do believe that because Draco was at the time a wee bit emotional it affected his spell-casting. Remember that to do the Cruciatus Curse you have to truly wish to inflict pain. While Harry's spell was quicker and more efficient, Draco's was a bit slower because he had other things on his mind at the moment besides Harry being there and catching him. Emotions can play with you like that.

And considering I'm running on 2 hours of sleep...that sounds pretty dang good to me.

I have to agree with MadamSureves. Draco was crying, caught at a very emotional and halpless moment. I mean,even if he would have uttered the curse, it would have not caused so much pain to Harry. I mean I'm sure he would have meant it, like Ballatrix said at the ministry to Harry. But I guess he had no will at that point to actually mean it.
Secondly, the purpose of that bathroom scene was to actually show the effect of Sectumsempra...So, Harry had to say it.

I agree with the "saying spells at the same time thing". I also agree with 'the silos chronicles" 100%. The whole point of the chapter was to show what the Sectumsempra curse can do, and well, the rest of it too.

This sort of thing kept happening at the ministry in book 5. I think it has to do with saying the incantation louder and faster. My question is why would Malfoy use an unforgivable curse in the presence of a Hogwarts ghost and bathroom? Wouldn’t this destroy Malfoy’s master plan (if the incantation had succeeded) when Dumbledore found out from Harry, Snape, (if Snape would tell) or Myrtle?

Thats true. This is what happened during the bathroom scene:



Harry was on the floor because he had slipped from all the water. Draco had already started to say the curse, and Harry did the only thing he could think of: fire a curse back at him, and fast. So Harry literally screams the curse at Draco. I do agree that even though Draco was in the middle of saying his curse, that Harry caught him off guard when he screamed out his own curse. I also agree, George's Girl, that Draco realized as soon as Harry got the first syallable of his curse out that he didn't know what that curse was for, which means that he didn't know how to block it. That was what made him stop in the middle of his curse. He was trying to think of a way to defend himself, and he didn't act fast enough. He may have been able to jump out of the curses way, but he was too busy trying to figure out what the curse would do and he wasn't able to move fast enough.

I also don't think that Harry really meant to hurt Draco the way he did, which is evident by these passages:



AND



Those passages prove that Harry didn't mean to hurt Draco the way he did. Harry thought that if the curse was written in a school book that it would be relatively harmless, just like the Levicopus curse that he had found earlier in the year. He had no idea that a curse as dark as that one would be in a school text book. At the moment he used it, he was facing an enemy who was trying to use an unforgivable curse on him. He remembered that the curse was meant for enemies, so he used it. He made a mistake, which is normal for kids his age of course it was a potentially deadly mistake, but a mistake none-the-less.

Yeah i thought it was Harry shouting it that made him unaware..

I mean if somebody roared sectumsempra i'd be scared.

Or it could also be the Malfoy actually wanted Harry to stop him saying an unforgivable curse. So he doesn't get into trouble.

That is possible. I'm sure that even though Draco was a bit emotional at the time, that he knew that it was possible that Harry would run and tell Albus that Draco had attempted to use an unforgivable curse on him. Draco has a task to complete, and he knows that if he was to get in trouble for using that curse that he would be expelled and his chance to accomplish the task he was given would be over.

I've also been thinking that maybe he stopped in the middle of his curse, not because Harry's scream caught him off guard, but because he was hoping for one of two things:

1. That whatever curse Harry was about to use on him would be bad enough that Harry would get into trouble for using it, and we know that Harry did get in trouble for using it, so if that was his plan he succeeded.

Or

2. Draco knew that he wasn't ready to use an unforgivable curse, and instead of completely saying the curse and letting Harry know that he didn't mean it enough to hurt him, which would hurt Draco's pride, he decided to make it look like he was caught off guard. That would effectively make Harry believe that he had surprised Draco enough to where he couldn't concentrate on what he was saying, when in reality Draco just didn't want to give Harry any more reason to believe he was a coward than he already has.

Either one of those theories is possible. Let me know what you guys think about them

I think the curse Draco chose is too difficult for him, at this point in time. He was already emotionally distressed in the bathroom, and his mind probably wasn't reacting as quickly as Harry's was. I think it took him a minute or so to really understand what was happening, and by then, it was too late.

yup, i agree. we are told in book 5 that to perform an unforgivable, you must have utmost hate & concentration (or something along those lines, aniway). And even though, Draco taunts harry & company, i rekon that he's actually just jealous of harry, cause' he's a much better seeker, popular for 'that night', teachers' favourite, etc. So, yeah i don't think his cruciatus would have worked, even if he did manage to cast it.

Here's the thing. We know from the text that Draco, apparently, never finished the incantation for the Cruciatus curse. Therefore we cannot definitively know whether Draco could have pulled it off. We know that Draco hated Harry enough to break his nose, but not enough to, say, throw him under the train wheels in the invisibility cloak. But that year dragged along for Draco, who was trying constantly to repair the cabinent, and was having little success.

Could Draco have performed the Cruciatus curse in different circumstances? I think its possible he had the hate, but not necessarily the desire to enjoy seeing suffering inflicted. Although he did seem to enjoy Harry's other sufferings. (We know from his visit to the forbidden forest that Draco is much of a coward any how.)

That's true. Most bullies have no problems fighting other kids and injuring them, but they would never take it so far as to kill them or to cause them as much pain as the Cruciatus curse is sure to inflict upon its victim.



It is possible that if Draco had performed the curse earlier in the book than he did, that he may have been able to pull it off because he was alot more put together in the beginning of the book than he was when Harry found him in the bathroom with Myrtle. Of course, Draco may not have had the desire to see anyone suffer, especially at his hand. Draco may have used the curse, but it's highly possible that once Harry was under the effects of the curse, and Draco saw what he was doing, that he would have ended the curse faster than it took him to say the curse to begin with.

I believe that Draco only liked Harry's other sufferings because that was the only time Harry was experiencing what Draco has experienced. Draco is always the underdog. He's never been able to best Harry, and that sparks jealousy in Draco. Draco enjoys those moments where Harry is having problems because it's the only time he can see Harry as the underdog, so to speak.

I think that the only reason Draco tried to use the Cruciatus curse was because he was furious at the state that Harry had seen him in. I don't think it was built up hate, I just think at the moment Draco was extremely worried that Harry had seen him crying, a side that I'm sure nobody but Moaning Myrtle had ever seen of him, and Harry Potter would be the last person he woudl want to see. If he really had wanted to torture Harry with the Cruciatus curse he could have used it the night on the train when he had Harry at his mercy, but instead used physical violence rather than Dark Magic.

I don't believe that Draco's use of Crucio would have been that effective, if effective at all, because I don't believe it was about to be used with the hatred that Bellatrix implied was needed. I think it was simply anger and worrying that caused him to try to use it, which wouldn't be enough to cause results.

I also think that the used of Harry's curse caught him off guard so that he stopped midword, probably because he almost wanted to know what curse Harry was firing off since he had never heard it before. He was probably expecting it to be something that would just knock him off of his feet when Harry began to shout the word, and he expected he'd get right back up after words and continue on with shouting off curses at each other.

I also think that, like others said, it is hard to portray to characters trying to speak at the same time in writing. Draco's curse was only missing one letter, one tiny little syllable, but Harry fired off 4 syllables in that split second. I think that the reason it was written this way was to show us what curse Draco had been trying to use, without results actually showing. If Draco had only been able to squeeze off "Cr" or "Cru" not everybody, maybe even Harry included, would know what he was trying to do. By saying "Cruci" it was evident.

Can we take a little different tack (sp?)? If we assume that Draco could have performed the Cruciatus Curse (i.e. he had the requisite desire to see someone suffer etc.) Would Barty Crouch's goal, as Mad-Eye Moody, in showing the curse in class, the previous year, have been to plant the seed in any potential D-E sympathizers to do the same thing to their enemies?

I think he thought about his situation he diddnt want to get kicked out of hogwarts for using a un forgiveable curse thec voldemort would kill him and his family