I voted for the ministry of magic of course, because I think that if the british army fought the ministry of magic they'll definetly be fighting a losing battle, because (considering all the defences Field marshal had set), magic is definetly more powerful than technology, imagine with muttering a single word your opponent is being tortured or even dead.
And with a single incendio spell from a powerful wizard like Dumbledore or even Lupin, (considering that wizards in Dumbledore's age will never go to a war against muggles) would set a whole campsite into fire.
And what's more handy than being stealth? to be invisible, to attack without being seen, and not all wizards need invisibility cloaks to be invisible, Dumbledore yet again comes as an example (although Dumbledore's powers shouldn't be compared to ordinary wizard powers) but since Dumbledore can do it, then any wizard can do it with training, and you forgot a very important weapon wizards can use; legelemncy (sp?) wizards can know what their opponents intend to do just through reading their minds and of course muggles can't do occulemency, so they can't beat that.
And I disagree with Field marshal on a statement said on the first page, (Shield charms can't stop bullets), How did you know that? The protegus charm definetly could stop bullets.
Plus, wizards have far more powerful ways to protect themselves from intruding attacks, although it hadn't been mentioned in the books, I think that they can make force fields which can stop not only bullets but rockets, and can't wizards conjure things? that means that on the worst case, they can conjure muggle shields which definetly protects from bullets.
On the flying case, maybe that's the only advantage for the muggle army because wizards haven't invented missle shooting broomsticks and some air crafts are definetly faster than broomsticks.
But still wizards can shoot planes from sea level or even from air level while on their broomsticks.
All-in-all I think wizards are definetly going to win a war against muggles.

It would be close considering the muggle armed forces have much greater numbers than the MoM but the Mom could easily defend themselves from any bullet with a simple Protego spell and all the muggles would scatter when they see that there Unforgiveable curses woud easily kill you

definatly MoM because they could just use a killing curse and have the them dead in 1/2 a second; i bet most muggles would fear sonething like that. another point is that there are infinit numbers of spell out there surly they could find one to deal with that kind of situation.

if the Death eaters decided to help the ministry likely as they enjoy killing muggles whats to say a dark wizard couldn't kill a few muggle soldiers and raise them as inferi?
i mean inferi are tough it would take alot to destroy a inferi.

With muggle soldiers preocupied with the inferi you could have wizards sat back firering off Avada killing curses.
in the 6th book we discovered how protected Hogwarts was to outsiders with all the charms and shields around the castle i don't know if a missle could get through a barrier.
if it were the case of a stalemate wizards would be able to outlast muggles being able to conjure food drinks and pritty much anything.
All wizards would have to do is send small groups to food sources around Britain,
Destroy Britains Electricty gas,water,Transport (i.e trains shipments airports)Broadcast centres rendering radio and T.V's unuseble there would be choas with riots the wizards could then reorganize and then kill muggles in the choas and raise them as Inferi making an army of their own outnumbering the Muggle armed forces.

Strengh in numbers.

You know, you got a point there. I remember on a show on the History Channel they were talking about the power going out in Canada (I forgot which city, but this was about a decade ago). There was chaos, food wasn't coming, etc... It goes to show how reliant on technology we really are. Therefore, shutting down power plants, et al. would be the ultimate solution to stopping the Muggles...at least in the beginning before they recover.

Yes but the MoM wouldn't be to hasty about sending out killing curses, where as the armed forces follow orders- there is the enemy, neutralise it. Also, theres that many more men in the armed forces, the numbers would be like 15 to 1 at least

Sorry, Taskan, but I fail to see the logic behind your first sentence.
On the one side there are people paid to eliminate dark wizards. On the other side there are people who are being paid to eliminate a country's enemies. Where do you see a difference? I don't expect the percentage of Aurors who truely believe in the nobility of their job to be any higher than the percentage of such soliders in any army. There are always those who do it for a "great cause", then there are people who simply like plaing with guns (or jinxes in that case) and there are those who need to pay their bills and have enough money to by themselves food.

I don't think Taskan was talking about mercanaries. I think what he/she meant was that the Ministry wouldn't want to start using Unforgiveable Curses if they've said for a long time that any use of the three would "warrant a one way ticket to Azkaban".

And then the Armed Forces of any country would follow orders.

But I think, and I agree with you on this Misto, is that if the Ministry goes ahead and starts using the Unforgiveable curses, then the soldiers...that is, the Aurors or anybody else hired, would be able to use them without fault (going to Azkaban).

HA! That actually made me laugh.

But any who, in MY opinion considering the fact that wizards are outnumbered and the MAF have firepower, I say they`re {EQUAL} in chances of winning.

Heres why:


The MOM can dissapear and use all kinds of neat curses, also with the touch of a wand can be fully healed.

The MAF has MASSiVE fire power and a ridiculous amount of people "muggles" on their side.

It`s all really balenced out, its anyone`s game.

omg totally obvious!! MoM of courseeeeeeeee! i mean, they actually have magical poweeeers, so they can esaily beat down some criminals!

I guess there's ups and downs for both but I still voted for the Ministry.

The armed forces has guns and stuff and since most in the Wizarding World have no idea what a gun is might have an issue. The Ministry can do basically anything since their Wizards though

The Ministry of Magic is stronger in the sense that they have powers/abilities that exceed anything Muggles would have in a million years. But then again, they aren't as strong when it comes to their people trusting them. But as long as their abilities are exceedingly amazing, then that's all that matters.

i believe that the ministry of magic would win because even though the muggle armed forces may have more people the ministry has magic which overpowers guns but a million

they have wands that explains everything

No doubt I prefer The Ministry Of Magic! They're wizards, much more powerful and superior to muggles! I love magic!

Despite what many fanfiction authors have written, Aurors are not soldiers. They're police, similiar to S.W.A.T. teams (or whatever they call them in England) and/or Scotland Yard. In fact, I've seen no evidence of any sort of military existing in the magical world. This makes perfect sense when you think about it -- the Ministry of Magic's main job is keeping the existance of magic hidden from the Muggles (as stated by Hagrid in chp. 5 of SS/PS). It's pretty hard to do that if the magical governments are going to war with each other.
Wizards are in hiding. Not from Voldemort or some supernatural entity, but from Muggles. Despite various statements made in the books and on the 'net, Muggles can't be completely helpless against magic. If they were, wizards wouldn't be in hiding because no one hides from things that can't hurt them.
So Im going to have to go with the Muggle Armed Forces.

The Ministry of Magic, because spells are just so much more effective than anything Muggles have. And much more fun as well

The Ministry of Magic - they stop the army very easy with spells, while the army can't defend themselves against magic.

Wizards are outnumbered, and are fighting against machine guns and grenades and airplanes and other pieces of technology that a majority of them don't understand.

All it takes is an explosion and the wizards' wands (as narrow sticks of wood), are incinerated.

Besides, Muggles are awesome. That is something Arthur Weasley tries again and again to point out to his colleagues.

Wizards?

Muggles?

I have to say the Ministry Of Magic. The Armed Forces may have armed forces but the Ministry Of Magic has magic.

I would have to say the ministry of magic. The armed forces may have advanced weapons, however the MOM wouldn't even need to actually go out and fight them. They could just cast memory charms and sleeping charms that would incapicate the armed forces from using their weapons. I mean the armed forces wouldn't even know what hit them, because wizards can disillusion themselves or use invisibility cloaks. Ya, I think magic trumps weapons.

I agree with you Lily_Potter .The Armed Forces have a lot of advanced weapons ( ), but the Mininstry of MAgic is still more powerful because they have disillusionment charms and they could be hiding and secretly cursing people.
Just to tell you though, the Armed Forces may use radar or some other things to track people in their property, but the Ministry of MAgic wouldn't have to worry about that. They could be right outside the Armed Forces and be using Legilimens or something.

SAS vs Ministry...
I think muggles care about their physical condition more than the wizards and that gives them a boost-get close enough(maybe shields of mirrors ) and he wouldn't be able to do any magic-the SAS would whop their Mod Edit and that's how the muggles could win.
But all the tricks in the slave that the wizards got,all the spells-to transfigurate too-that would make them a serious enemy and the winner possibly-still if Sun Dzu lived in that time....
P.S. Science vs Magic

Mod Edit: Please read through the forum rules. Cursing is not permitted in the forums. Your post has been edited.

America would so kill the MoM, i dont know about the british. And, I really don't think that MoM can use unforgivables. But the muggles do have guns, so i guess they can if they wanted to.

Ministry of Magic

Whilst reading through these posts, yeah it is true that we have tanks and guns and weapons of mass destruction, but I still think that they would all be futile against magic. I'm sure a bullet or grenade could be deflected by a spell of some sort. In one part of the book, I can't remember which book, I think HBP, Ron flicks a knife at either Fred or George (or Bill? I'm not sure ) and he "lazily" turns it into a paper plane (or something to that effect). Which shows how easily a wizard could defend against a muggle attack.

I'm pretty sure the MoM could come up with a spell for anything. Take, for example, the events mentioned in the first chapter of HBP. The bridge collapsing, the giant damage.. a good example of the powerlessness of the muggle forces against the wizarding world.

Ministry of Magic, definetely. Peter Pettigrew killed 12 people with one spell, so i think a much more powerful wizard could kill about a hundred.

Well... if they did that old magic then, couldn't they do it again? I know that's from page 2 or whatever but I was just wondering... or they could do this - which is very evil but possible - split their soul like Voldie did... I mean he that sounds kinda simple though I'd have to say very rude! Only if the wizard is desparate enough to do it. Though I believe if the wizard was so desparate to not die he could apparate on the spot or just stay at home... whatever floats his boat. I think we should all find a bunch of people in Great Britain that dress funny and start fighting them! I'd love to see how that'd turn out - aside from the death - I don't like death much...

Ministry of Magic! They've got maaagic. And their ways of defense don't necessarily include violence, which is always a good thing. Plus they can do nearly everything with magic sooo yeah. And I believe Ministry of Magic wizards are a bit smarter than normal people...? I dunno. It depends though, I mean the MoM should have some knowledge about the Muggle techniques if they were to fight. And shields? Protego could save em all. Maybe not from bombs though. Unless they have some anti-explosion spell...? Anyway, I had something else to say but I rambled into nonsense so now I forgot.

Ha, good point there.

OOOHHH I just remembered... how about someone who can supposedly do magic that is a muggle? Say..... Criss Angel? Hahaha just kidding!

now let's be realistic!!! The ministry of magic would blast any army on earth. They only have to cast a disilussionment (i don't think I spelled that right) charm upon themselves, cast a shield and go hexing and cursing muggles. That's not too hard

Although the Muggle Armed forces might have firepower and bombs, I like to think that the Ministry of Magic would be able to magically stop Muggle weapons. What's the point of magic if you can't stop a bomb from exploding?

The Ministry would definitely win against the Muggle Armed Forces...because hello, they have magic and well I think magic said it all

Field marshal said:



1. Shield spells have been shown to stop physical objects as well as spells. Bullets are physical objects.

2. Some would be shot but they could quickly use a healing spell (bullets don't necessarily kill instantly.) and then whoosh the guns are flying away.

3. True. Soldiers are trained not to fear anything.

4. Ditto.

5.I'm sure loads of wizards using "potego horriblis" could withstand a bomb, and as I have said bullets would be stoppable. Nuclear bombs are a different story but you can't exactly go flinging them pell mell into the battle field.


6. See Episky, and other healing spells.

7. yep invisibility cloaks are rare. But disillusionment charms aren't, and if freezing charms have been proven to put electrical appliances out of action so good bye heat sensors (not to mention most of the muggle arsenal.).

8.I agree Nuclear bombs whoop the unforgivables any day. but as I said, you can't just lob them every time you start to lose.

9. Again I agree that if a tree can smash a broom to bits a machine-gun certainly can. But again freezing charms can freeze up all the vehicles engine.

10. Once more, true. But once more freezing charms would lock up all the guns mechanisms before the muggles could kill more than the front line.

I rest my case. ministry wins. HANDS DOWN.

I believe Muggle Armed Forces would win.

Reasons:

- we dont know about any magic of mass destruction, it could exist, but it probably would consume an obscene amount of magic, otherwise Voldemort would use it. Mugglers have a lot of mass destruction weapons

- there are not many wizards that could stand a good fight(not all are trained like the Aurors). There are a lot of soldiers, weapons, tanks, aircrafts. Wizards become exausted(like soldiers), but cant be replaced.

- Zergs > Protoss

could hogwartz survive a nuclear explosion? say one that'd level a good chunk of the area

what about an MOAB that's got the force equal to fat man and little boy but got none of the nasty side effects like radation poisoning and shyte

i mean they could get some from the US if they don't already have them themselves

a couple of those..i can't really see hogwartz survivng what amounts to non nuclear nuclear level force

i mean

they could just start carpet bombing wizarding comunities..it's kinda hard to cast spells on planes that can drop a few thousand tons of explosives from a good ten or so thousand feet in the air

the only reason why that probably wont happen..and it's also the biggest benifit to the wizarding world is the fact that their for the most part living among us normal folk in the hpverse

so you can;t just go around indescriminately bombing blasting and assualting where they live..due to the collatarol damage

still obliterating key wizarding positions-should not be a problem at all

most modern super power militaries (brittan the us china germany russia france etc) should be able too easily do them in

if they ignore things like "the geneva convention" and start acting really cruel

of course the problem is they wont

the UK can still effectively cripple the wizarding worlds ability to run their government..teach their kids..and function as a society

they can;t totally eradicate it though

The size of this post might turn you off but meh =p this has been stuck in my head all day. In terms of military of equipment and what muggles/wizards can or cannot do to each other i would still choose the british armed forces or in my case the australian armed forces. In the HP world, Muggles > Wizards, wizards population is almost at extinction compared to muggles. Hypothetically, assume that there is a war between both muggles and wizards, each has equal land space and an equal population, it is a deathmatch, knowledge, government, education are all the same however:

Government

Muggles
British muggles in the modern world all belong to a state with little unrest towards their government. This saying, there are still activist groups and all that but none really with the power to overthrow the government through force. The government is chosen by the people through a democratic way, and most people are content with the decision.

Wizards
Their government has been constantly raided, controlled and indeed even has had their leaders executed recently. And it can happen through the hands of one, two or even a small group of wizards. There is little power against such adversaries and even in the calmest of times it is heavily influenced through wizarding families - such as the Malfoys. There is also a massive class struggle and snobby aristocracy in areas of the wizarding community (pure-bloods, half-bloods and muggle-born wizard/witches) it doesnt even help that hogwarts encourages this through slytherin.

Knowledge

Muggles
Almost everything the wizarding world has the muggles have unknowingly developed a counter for it. Avada Kedavra, equivalent to a non-automatic pistol. Humans have guns that can fire more than 120 rounds per minute. Invisibility cloaks pwn't by infared. Missiles can go undetected. Tactics: Muggles > Wizards, all they have to do is suprise the wizards or ambush them to easily turn the tide of any battle. However they originally know nothing about the wizarding world. Many people are saying that wizards dont know much about muggles. At least wizards knew about muggles rather then not knowing them at all. Also someone stated that wizards could just transfigure the bullets into something else. a bullet is a extremely small, fast moving object that hits a target almost instantly being launched, i doubt they'd have the speed. Avada kedavra is a massive green laser, its slower than a bullet and can be dodged. shield spells would be useful i agree.

Wizards
Are resourceful, many useful spells and can easily suprise muggles. I think unforgivable curses would be forgivable in a war, heck harry and his friends use them at times. same with wizards, there magic is equivalent to modern technology.

I think both teams are equal in this department

Education

Muggles
All muggles are educated in many other areas that wizards are not. They know a variety of other useful skills like geography, construction, writing, business, science/technology, military training, arts, policing, psychology. They'd probably adapt faster to wizards than wizards would to them in a war.

Wizards
Wizards only learn magic and the history of their magic. Education in Spells, Beastiary and Herbology > Psychology, Mathetmatics, Literacy apparently. They may permit themselves to study muggle habits or ideas (arthur weasley) but most of the wizarding community looks down on the muggle community in a kind of uncivilised way. Not to mention as before, the wizards are split into 4 houses with different views, slytherin even encourages class-struggles.

Wizards look down on muggles as uncivilized. i think its the other way around, i think muggles are more civilised and wizards are more babaric, they've barely changed since the 17th century. I wanted that prime minister in book 6 to left-hook damn fudge in the face.

All in all, i think a deathmatch would be won by muggles. It would not be an easy win, wizards and muggles would suprise each other. but in terms of the gov, knowledge and education, a muggle civilization would crush a wizard civilization.

I've thought along these lines for years!

I think that wizards have two very great weaknesses against Muggles; first they vastly underestimate Muggles, and second, they are vastly outnumbered.

If Muggles were no match for wizards, then why would wizards bother hiding from Muggles?

But here is another great strength Muggles have that wizards do not: knowledge, not only of how to make electronics and technology, but also knowledge of the principles of the world, sciences, and physics. The wizards' greatest weapon is Avada Kedavra; the Muggle's most powerful weapon is the thermonuclear bomb. Which would you be more impressed and intimidated by?

I doubt that wizards could stop an H-bomb; partly because it's too powerful, and partly because with their level of education, they wouldn't know what it was, until it was too late. '

Not to mention, the nuclear bomb harnesses the energy that holds atoms together. That is intense power, something that I doubt magic could duplicate. To say that magic could stop it would be like saying that wizards are as powerful as volcanoes or hurricanes. Do wizards match the power of Krakatoa? And does they equal the force of Hurricane Katrina? But with scientific principles, Muggles have come closer to that than wizards have.

Nowhere in the HP books does it say that wizards learn physical science. In fact, I doubt they do. In basic education, the wizards are very medieval. That's what isolation does to a society. They progress much more slowly than the societies that don't hide from each other and exchange ideas.

And history shows that people can progress quickly. For now, this is conjecture, but think about it; it took sixty-six years to go from flying the first airplane (Orville and Wilbur Wright in 1903) to landing on the moon (Neil Armstrong, 1969). And it took forty-seven years to go from the discovery of radiation (Marie Curie, 1898) to the testing of the first atomic bomb (the Manhattan Project, 1945). How long will it be, in the HP world, before Muggles develop technology that even wizards cannot hide from? How do you know, for instance, if in fifty or a hundred years, Muggles will have developed their own shields, or force fields, capable of blocking the Avada Kedavra curse? Where then will wizards be? Because from what we can see of the history set up for wizards in the HP world, they do not progress... because they are an isolated society.

Before long, Muggles will have become more advanced a civilization than wizards. I would argue that they already have, especially in philosophical thought, though that's another topic entirely.

If you read "Guns, Germs, and Steel," by Jared Diamond, you'd know that the exchange of ideas is probably why the Europeans and the Asians were much more technologically advanced than the Native Americans by the 16th century.

And also, if wizards were somehow stripped of their magic, they'd be completely lost, because they know nothing about the world apart from their gift. For heaven's sake, Arthur Weasley's great ambition, as stated in HBP, is to find out how airplanes stay up. I would have been able to tell him that at the age of 12! Or at least give a basic concept, because if I told him how it actually works, he wouldn't understand, because he likely never learned physical science.

The ignorance we see in wizards concerning Muggles and Muggle civilization, especially in the Weasley family, is incredible. Ron thinks that doctors are Muggle nutters that cut people up. He also thinks that you have to shout in a telephone to be heard on the other side. Mr. Weasley doesn't understand basic electricity, let alone a computer. He can't even pronounce the word.

Here's another simple idea that would throw the Death Eaters through a loop. Many times, you hear somebody in the books wonder out loud how Muggles manage without magic. Simply put, we don't need magic. We have a weapon: knowledge. We understand the world better than wizards do. We can harness natural principles to aid us. The atomic bomb is proof of that. Think of it this way: who is more creative and intelligent? Those who find the easy way out of a solution (wizards), or those who don't have the gift wizards have but can still solve the solution through an alternative that doesn't require magic?

Muggles would just develop an EMP equivalent that permanatly disables wands with the radius of a nuclear weapon - Wizards -1

Muggles pwn em in communications too, especially through the use of radio and the creation of the internet. Mobile phones provide muggles with instant communication. Every muggle united in communicative technology. Owls? fireplaces anyone?

Wizards pwn muggles in transport though. They could apparate in the middle of a battle group and cause mass confusion in the field, and very useful in retreats. But muggles have large transport vehicles and can transport tens, hundreds of people to a single drop point, apparation as we know isnt always safe/accurate as well.

couldn't help thinking this: "Avadaka - BOOM!"

I think I voted on wizards winning a while back but i've changed my mind. muggles have so much weaponry, and bullets go to too fast to transfigure. Wizards most powerful spells match your average gun or grenade.

And those who say that the wizards would win are also assuming that all wizards are skilled at dueling and apparating and any skill that would come with fighting.

Simple numbers are enough. The Muggle armed forces would vastly outnumber the wizards' forces, no matter how many wizards are fighting (and we're still assuming that only a few of these wizards are actually skilled fighters). It is extremely rare that a small group of fighters defeat a whole army, and every time it was under extraordinary circumstances.

And it is made clear in OOTP that very few wizards actually know how to fight, whereas in a Muggle army, every single soldier is trained up and does know how to fight. They are also trained to not run until commanded, no matter what the adversary is.

As I said before, if Muggles were no match for wizards, then why would wizards be so afraid of Muggles? Why would they bother hiding from them?

Yes they would outnumber the wizards but wizards have much better defense mechanisms. Who is to say a shield charm would not block a bullet... we wouldn't know until it was tried. If it does the wizards could buy out Fred and George's shield cloaks and hats and focus on offensive methods. Almost any Ministry of Magic official will be able to duel... that takes very good O.W.L.s for most positions... they are talented witches and wizards.