I don't believe Regulus was a coward no matter what Sirius said. Regulus perhaps was just looking for a place to belong when he became a DE. As for Regulus being Fang, well, Hagrid may not be aware just as Ron was not aware of Scabbers. Now Crookshanks can see through the disguise of an animagus. Other creatures may also so I think Fang would have been found out by now. Also on the point of animagus being in the genes, I thought it could be taught unlike being a metamorphmagus which is genetic. Animagi are rare because it is very complicated magic and not everyone can do it. Probably one of the many reasons they have to be registered. I think however it is taught in McGonagall's class in 7'th year. Perhaps why she is picky about who enters her NEWT class?

Sorry slightly O/T

But she is less strict than Snape about who enters her class as she does allow E students to stay on, she only tellls Neville no because he only got an A it'd be like putting a C or C- student in an advanced class and she knows he is getting an A when he's trying his hardest not because he's slacking. I think she knows the only way he'd get through is if he spent all his time with Luna or Hermione and Luna's a year behind and has her own worries and Hermione has her own priorities in two other male students in their year.

EDIT:
I don't think that Regulus would need to be a coward to take that path in his life I mean it's what would be expected of him and we know how pleased his mother was when she found out. I think really its obvious that he joined the DE's and I think that possibly part of Sirius's issues with him are sibling rivalry, I mean both follow their hearts and one gets praised and one spend his last summer before he comes on age living in another home.

That is exactly what I was thinking when I read the theory. JKR does tend to use some of the same themes and symbolism over and over, but in different contexts. For her to have another animagus hiding from LV and the DEs would be dissapointing to me. I just don't think it fits with JKRs style and genius.



Here too, I agree with you. It took a very courageous man to backout of a contract that can only end in death. I think (and hope) that we may see Snape do something very similar. I think he knows how courageous he is in doing what he is doing. I believe that is why Snape was so upset with Harry in the end of Book 7 when Harry called him a coward.

There have been some great posts in here and I have enjoyed reading them all.

Bright Blessings!
)O(

First, let me welcome all the new fellow Slytherins, and a big hug to Corijp and Spyrallabyrinth!! it's been a while!!

Second, I am very happy that the House is so crowded!! help yourself with fresh frogs...

There have been several interesting subjects in a few days.
Definitely, I agree on Regulus' courage; proof is, his stepping back from LV when he realizes he doesn't agree with his plans anymore.
Mrs Black is an interesting (and awful) character: you could give your opinion in the thread named "The Role of Women in HP books". I think she loved only her pureblood heritage, and as soon as her sons took different paths, she soon forgot her maternal role (if she ever had any).

Again, I can't trust an opinion on Snape given by Sirius. How can you tell that Severus was REALLY jealous of James's success? I really don't think so. Sorry if I insist on this point, but I am pretty sure that the main POV is that of a Gryffindor, being Harry, Ron, Hermione, Sirius, Remus, the Weasleys, Minerva, Hagrid...etc.etc, and if someone sees Snape as jealous and he's been one of his worst enemies, I tend to be a little skeptical.


Lucius...He's deadly sexy, we all know , and he's a very good manager of himself. He knows when to lie and when to attack...always with style!!
But he has got neither half of the complexity of Snape. He's a very two-dimensions villain (sorry, whe I'mt tired I do so many errors). But very good looking, anyway.

Let's go on. After the Burial mentioned the Gaunts, very interesting indeed. Merope is a kind of person who has conditioned with her behaviour several lives. A weak woman, with a tremendous power. She didn't care for her child because she didn't care for herself first. In this sense, she goes beyond the purebloods family canon. It's the proof that there are pureblood people who react to those strict behavioral rules. Could be interesting examining three halfbloods we know,in 3 generations: Voldemort, Snape and Tonks, but alas, I don't think there's space enough for this, on a Slytherin thread...(BTW, who knows which House Tonks was sorted in?)

Definitely not, Regulus being Fangs. I think he's dead...

No, I was meaning to say that him being an animagus, would be a complete mystery to everyone. This includes Hagrid. He does say that he got Fang when he was a pup. Maybe a 17-19 year old young man, would transform into a puppy. This would make sence since dogs have conciderable lifespans, in terms of dog years. There is a basic arithmattical equation to work out the age of a dog, if it was the result of a man turning into one. You have to take, the age of the man, multiplied by seven. In Regulus's case, this would be, 17 x 7= 119, in dog years. This is pheasable. for the type of dog that Fang is they live to age 20 in human years. So, this would make Fangs life expectancy at, 140 in dog years. This means that Regulus, probably discovered his being an animagus, at age 17-19, in human years.

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

that is a though a good one actually but there is only one thing stopping me from commiting to the idea 100 % and that is...if regulas really is fang then why would everyone say he is dead and not missing..on the black family tree there is a date of death..how would they know the date if they didn't no he died..i know wormtail faked his death but jo doesn't repeat storry lines.

I believe Regulus is dead. We know that Harry spent massive amounts of time trying to find Draco on the Marauder's Map during HBP. He even searched the grounds when he could not see Draco anywhere. Since Fang is unlikely to enter Hogwarts castle, and there are few people on the grounds at any time, Regulus would have been spotted on the Marauder's Map.

Good news, my younger brother was sorted in Slytherin today. He should make an appearance sometime in the near future.

Yea! A new Slytherin! This place is being over run by Gryffindors! (just kidding!)

The Marauder Map "never lies" and so if Regulus was Fang then we would see R. Black floating over his "dot". If Harry were to see anyone with the name Black, he would nose around until he found out who it was, thus blowing Fang's cover.

Witchmom, you asked which house Tonks was sorted into. Hmmm...I don't think we know, but I see either Gryffindor or Ravenclaw. I see her as a grown up Luna.

Spirallabyrinth brought up a good point; are there parallels between Regulus and Severus and if so what do we see, or don't see?

Thoughts are welcome!

I see Regulus and Severus as very different characters. They were both Death Eaters. Regulus chose to leave the Death Eaters. Many people believe Severus will do the same thing. Other than this, what parallels can be drawn between the two? They had vastly different childhoods. We know almost nothing about Regulus outside his family. Not much more can be said of Snape.

Ok I have never thought out the complication of the Marauder's Map. But, I have a way around this too. I wonder if a person can make him/herself, unplottable. You know, like the Room of Requirements is? This would solve the Marauder Map problem. Now, for another question that has croped up from my Regulus threory. Maybe he faked his death, and then everyone including the DEs and Voldemort, truely believes that he is now dead. Maybe he isnt dead. He could have faked his death in some other way. Also, about this being so close to what Wormtail did, this is completely different. Take the motive for why Wormtail faked his death. He was cornered by sirius. He had to do something, so he blasted a hole in the street, and and in doing so, killed all those muggles, and also, he set in motion, the worldwide manhunt, for sirius instead of himself. He was playing off of people knowing that he was hopeless. Not a very adept wizard as we so know the contrary. Now, Wormtail faked his death, to escape from Sirius. Regulus, I believe, will have done so, to escape a DEs death by the hands of the DEs. This is a completely different theme, I would say. Now, we have a different scapegoat too. Wormtail used his cut off finger, to make the world believe he was dead. In Regulus's case, I think he is using the fact that he merely disappeared from the face of the Earth. Now is where we get a bit simalar. Wormtail turned to his Rat form, and became the Weasley Boy's pet. In Regulus's case, he would turn to a black boarhound, and become Hagrid's pet. The only way well know for sure, is if Harry puts his pocket Sneakascope next to Fang. That is how we were forshadowed to think, hey, why did it keep going off when ever it got near Ron? Well it did this, because, Wormtail was scabbers, and scabbers was always in Rons shirt pocket. That is the only way, we will know for sure, unless Jo, comes out and says " Yes, Fang is really Regulus!", or " No, Regulus is not an animagus!" So, untill she says that in an interveiw, or until the book comes out it prove me right or wrong, we are led to believe, that Regulus is an animagus, and that he is Fang.

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

But then we would have the whole problem of the family tapestry. Regulus can fool people, and wizards, but he can't fool magic. The tapestry is magical and records everyone's death and birth. If Regulus dies, then it would show up on the map. Thus, it did.

Here's something that just occured to me: If Sirius were truly dead then it would show up on the tapestry as well. Perhaps that why we didn't go to Grimmauld place in HBP because JK didn't want Harry (and us) to know the truth of Sirius' demise or lack thereof?

Prince, I have no doubt that anything is possible in the magic world, including making someone unplottable; however I don't see Regulus having that type of magical talent. It would take a strong witch or wizard to pull something like that off. Not to mention who says the Room of Requirement is unplottable? Just because it isn't showing on the Map doesn't mean anything; it just means MWPP had not found it before they finished the map.

I think that the Room of Requirement is Unplottable. I like Hermione's reasoning that it would be included as part of the magic of the room. Prince, why would Regulus make himself Unplottable? He did not know about the Marauder's Map. He would have no reason to think that someone would create a map to find where he is.

Were we ever told that the tapestry is magical? People can be blasted off. But we are never told what manages the dates and gold lines. I think it would be magical, but are we ever explicitly told that?

aha, this brings us to another theory. Snakecharmer, I think that Lupin knows about the room of requirement now. Why wouldnt he just pop into Hogwarts, find Harry and ask for the map, so he can plot the room on the map? It has proven that this room is potenially hazardous, hasnt it? I mean, that is what led to DDs death. The DEs stormed Hogwarts, because, Draco was able to use the Room which had the vanishing cabinet, and in turn was able to get the Dark Mark shot into the sky above the Lightening Struck Tower. Maybe that is the real reason that Tonks showed up in that corridor. She wanted to find Harry and get the map for Lupin, and in turn, plot the room. If this is what was being done, then maybe it is true that the Room truely is unplottable. Also, Regulus would make himself unplottable, because, I am sure that LV would find some way to find him. That is if he was pretending his death. LV is cunning enough to think of a map. Hey!!!! Maybe he learned about the Marauder's Map from doing Legilimency on James before he killed him!! Wow, I have never thought about that one. This adds to the reasons that Regulus could have made himself unplottable, in hope of faking his own death. You see, if Regulus was a DE, then he most likely was told alot of the things that his master has found out. The map may have cropped up, and then once Regulus decided to back out of being a DE, decided that he should fake his death, and make himself unplottable, know that LV knew about the map. Hm, this is breaking information, this is. Now, about the tapestry. First of all, Sirius was blasted off of the tapestry, so I think that if there was any magic within that moldy old thing, then Sirius's name would be still just blasted off, it wouldnt say, Death and have a date. This is because, his name was blasted off before he died. Now, about Regulus's name on the tapestry. Regulus, was a Black. Whos to say that any Black cant just put something on the tapestry? Also, I think that Regulus, could have confunded the tapestry. We all know that the house was empty for years. Maybe he went there, and confunded it, or just told it he was dead, and it put that info on itself.

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

Now Prince, don't you think Remus has more important things to worry about then updating the Marauder's Map? He's underground with the werewolves, dealing with a tempermental girlfriend (not to mention nearly 20 years his junior), and still reeling from the loss of Professor Dumbledore.

Draco knew about the Room of Requirement (Can I write RoR for this?) from being an Inquisitor the year before with Umbridge so getting the DE's in was no big deal. As for Voldemort having knowledge about it...well, I honestly don't think he was too concerned about what wittle Draco was doing. Draco was so far down on the food chain that worms looked down on him. Yes Voldemort gave him a "task" but he also expected him to fail that task so to him Draco was 'out of sight, out of mind'.

As far as Regulus "confunding" the tapestry anything is possible. Barty Crouch Jr. (as Mad-Eye Moody) was able to confund the Goblet of Fire to make sure Harry was a contestant of the TriWizard Tournament, so Regulus confunding something of his families is quite possible.

And yes I did remember that Sirius was blasted off and after looking at the map again the dates of his birth and death were blasted with it. For some odd reason I figured we would still be able to read the dates. My bad. You were right.

Perhaps I am determined not to believe your theory Prince. You have thought of solutions to every possible problem. Still, I am faced with the idea that there are so many possible problems, all of which would have needed to be thought of by Regulus before he acted on his plan to fake his death. Your theory is too elaborate for my liking.

I also believe that Voldemort can track those that have the Dark Mark. You may argue that Karkaroff survived for more than a year. However, that majority of that year was spent by Voldemort in hiding. If he had Karkaroff killed, he would want the Dark Mark put out to warn his enemies (and friends). Well that would give away that fact that he was back. So he let Karkaroff live one year in fear. After Voldemort came into the open, Karkaroff did not last very long.

EDIT: I found this quote.


You can see it here http://www.veritaserum.com/media/mar/rowlingtranscript.shtml

What if he only expected to die? I mean what if he was planning something to either cover his trail for times to come and keep him out and it was an all or nothing bet? It would possibly explain the family tree he could simply tell it he died like others have said and for all he knew he would. That could be why he placed the slightly ominous note in the fake horcrux he didn't expect to be found alive if anyone ever found that note. I think he was either going after something very important to LV like the horcruxes or some other powerful weapon that needed to be protected that only the DE's were certain to get to.

Forgive me I don't think that all makes sense but it's the best I got for now.

That's an interesting theory. However I see Regulus as a scared 18 year old kid. I don't see him being that cunning without help. Who is going to help him conceive such a scheme as that? Another DE? Doubt it. His brother? Hardly likely. His family? Yeah, right. So the whole thing sounds great but without probable evidence, I'm going to have to regretably agree with After the Burial. No offense, but I usually enjoy disagreeing with you Burial. Regulus is dead and unless book seven disagrees with it, that's where I stand.

emrldelf, I love your avatar! Way cool! We welcome you to the Slytherin thread!

Regulus is a Slytherin, he was placed there, for a reason. Slytherins are Cunning, and ambitious in the extreme. So, no, I cannot agree with you there. I think Regulus was quite capable of thinking through a plan.

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

Regulus is dead. Did it not say that he was killed by the DE's the people he joined ranks with years ago? No wonder Mrs Black thought more of Regulus than what she ever thought of Sirius. She was proud of Regulus b/c he was in Slytherin, he joined the DE ranks and he was fighting for what she agreed with, riddind the wizarding world of all mudbloods. Sirius on the other hand, was in Gryffindor and was framed for murders he diod not commit, and much to the dislike of Mrs Black did not join sides w/ LV. All Mrs Black was worried about was her pure-blood status and wanting her sons to follow in her evil footsteps. Sirius said when he was 16 he lefty home to live w/ James Potter and his family because he was ashamed of his own family. He even tells Harry this when discussing Bellatrix, that he did not consider her part of his family. I think that Sirius was born into the wrong family and was expected to do as they did, but he did not, he took his own path. Unfortunately in the end because of his disliking for certain members of his family, that was his demise.

No offense at all, Charmer. This made me laugh. At least I know you read my words. Long discussions make for fun ones, no?

In all the interviews I have ever read, JK has never told a falsehood. I will accept her interviews as canon. Regulus is dead. (Which is a shame, really. It would have made such an exciting twist.)

Hmm, you think H/Hr shippers would have realized that?


Now, technecally, has J.K ever said anything SPECIFICALLY saying "Regulus died"? Unless memory fails, she hasn't. So for all we know, Regulus is out there plotting to find more of Voldemorts Horcruxes. *cough*cough*cough*Regulus is R.A. B.*cough*cough*cough.

Hi everyone! i'm a Slytherin too or should it be lol, I thing Regulus is RAB as well, but i also think he is dead.. Just thought i should add my bit. I've read a convincing arguemnt that RAB is also Aberforth Dumbledore on this MB, but my instinct its telling me Regulus...for now, but I can still be convinced otherwise....

Yes, JK has specifically said that Regulus is dead.



You can see it here http://www.veritaserum.com/media/mar/rowlingtranscript.shtml


Lumos, welcome to the forums. Have you been officially sorted? You said 'should be.' I am just curious. Anyhow, I look forward to any contributions you wish to make.

Burial, while I will agree JK has not told us a falsehood in her interviews, I will say she words herself carefully to make sure not to be trapped. She is very cunning as well as the rest of my fellow serpents. She is not going to catch herself in a trap. She has even told interviewers to reword their questions so that she can answer them honestly.

However, I agree with Burial (again, much to my chagrin) that yes she did tell us Regulus is dead. Yes I read just about every word you write and yes the longer discussions are usually the better ones.



That's funny! I don't care who you are! Tee hee!


As for Slytherin's being, what was it you said Prince? Ah, 'cunning and ambitious to the extreme'. Well, as much as that is true are we forgetting two major things: Crabbe and Goyle. Need I say more? Just because you are in Slytherin (and forgive me for slandering my own house) doesn't mean your are the brightest crayon in the box. I will admit that most Slytherin are street smart as opposed to book smart (like the majority of Ravenclaw) but perhaps their ambition is towards something totally ambiguous (such as following around Draco like a lap dog). I don't know. But saying that Regulus was a Slytherin as a means for him to be brilliant enough to pull off such an escapade is a very weak argument. He was weak; I see him more as a Crabbe or Goyle then a Malfoy.

LumosNox: If you are in Slytherin, welcome! We serpents here are quite the friendly type. It's those rogue Gryffindors you have to watch out for! (just kidding Prince and Burial!!!)

I don't know how you do it Charmer. You convey humor in your posts that I find difficult to express over the fourms. You have had me laughing twice today.

But why do you think Regulus was weak? The way Slughorn spoke of him and Sirius made me think that Regulus was a very good student. Sirius did not like him, so we must take his comments with some salt. They were probably not perfectly accurate (along with his comments about Snape).

It may be possible, that Crabbe and Goyle, may be, cunning and ambitious. Havent we all seen, how some people in the HP series, dont seem to display their traits for which they have been sorted into a specific Howarts House? Take Wormtail for instance, he comes off as a coward, but, in the last book, we know he will have to do something very heroic and courageous, not to mention, daring. He will have to defy his master, and pay his lifes debt to Harry, because, Harry has saved Wormtails life, from Lupin and Sirius's homicidal vengeance upon him. So, can this be the case, with Crabbe and Goyle as well? I think so. They have hidden talent and it hasnt yet been seen, but it will be in book 7, I think.

Thanks,

~~Prince~~

Okay there were a few things brought up that I'm glad I get to talk about.

First off, I think Regulus was weak because he wasn't able to figure out what he wanted for himself. He just went along with what mommy wanted and that was that. He didn't bother to research the facts, he didn't bother to think 'hey, there's somethin fishy about wanting to purify the magic world?'. He just accepted her word and that was it. Sirius on the other knew that it was wrong, and took a stand as soon as he could. I don't see Regulus as the weak, simpering, sniveling weasle like Pettigrew. I see him as more like Faramir from LOTR. Doing everything he can to make his mother happy. I'm sure he had a strong spirit, but his actions are that of a coward even though he did try to fix it in the end; too little too late.

Also, listen to what you said Burial: "The way Slughorn spoke of Regulus and Sirius they were good students". Quite frankly I don't hold much stock to Slughorn either. He is a gloryhound happy to ride on the heels of those more glamourus than he. As long as they make him look good, he's happy. He reminds of someone I went to school with; someone who likes to rub elbows with the 'powerful' ones (if you can call them that in high school) but have no power themselves.

I would think I would like Regulus (only because I picture him as hot as I picture Sirius) but I still think of him weak and a coward. Please feel free to prove me wrong.

Burial, I am honestly not trying to be funny and I can't help but wonder what you found funny in my last comment. However I'm not offended in the least. I'm glad I was able to make you laugh. Twice. Anyone else laughing at me???

Thoughts anyone???

It was the line about agreeing with me, much to your chagrin. It conjures images of Malfoy saying, "Oh no, I actually agree with Potter." It is just a funny thought in my mind.

Slughorn is a gifted wizard. I agree that he likes to bump elbows with the famous and powerful too much. He is a glopry hound, but he is a Slytherin. In my mind, he is a lazy man. If you are not going to work for glory, bumping elbows with those who will is one way to get shared glory. (Prince, this is as high an opinion on Crabbe and Goyle as I have. Short of actually reading JK's words allowing them a masterful stroke of cunning, it won't get any higher.)

I think Regulus is more like Boromir than Faramir. Faramir had a noble spirit about him. Boromir was the one who did whatever his father wanted. If I were placing houses, Boromir would have been a Slytherin and Faramir would be Gryffindor. They seem like completely different people to me.

Hello all! I was just sorted into Slytherin. My older brother is After The Burial. Please do not hold that against me.

Welcome to Veritaserum and Slytherin house!

Although I don't know who After the Burial is but its spoken like a true sibling!

Hope you have fun!

Roar! Hehehe...I just wanted you to know I found that very funny.



You made a terrific point right there! That's exactly how I feel regarding the two brothers and their differences. What Regulus may or may not have done later, is one thing, but like a "good" son, he joined up when his parents felt Voldemort was on the right track.



*sigh* Slughorn reminds me of one of those "good ol' boys" who empower themselves by making good with important people (politics maybe ) so that later favors and kickbacks can be served. Well, come to think of it, he's exactly like that...


I don't know... maybe if it's in regards to a feast of sorts... the only motivation I've seen (or at least perceived from them) is by food.

I'll never figure out how the people with the snake or slytherin names get here. Is it because of the names, or you act like a slytherin? I was pegged as a complete Gryffindor untill I made a revenge coment. Anyways, ignore the ramblings of this old marauder, and let me say welcome to slytherin eye of the snake!


This has been discussed previously. Crabbe and Goyle show ambitions of wanting to be death eaters like their father. That is ambition in any form. So, maybe that is why all Death Eater kids are in slytherin, wanting to be like their parents.




As for Regulus, I said "if memory fails". Guess my memory failed. Darn rolling blackouts. Well, that one kicked that bucket, no pun indentended. So, I guess this has moved onto a "is regulus R.A.B " topic. Well, my vote is yes. He is the only person throughout the intire series that has a chance of coming anywhere close to that. He was a death eater. His forst and last initals are R. and B. He got killed for trying to backout of the death eaters. Now, here is where I disagree. He may have backed out, but not for the reason we think. When he realized what Voldemort was capable of doing to be immortal, he must have panicked. How he found out, J.K only knows, but he found out and trid to get rid of as many as he could. Then, when he thought he maybe destroyed them all, he tried to back out to cover his tracks, knowing he would get killed in the process, but worth it to bring Voldy down. Wow, this has to be the longest post ever made by me! I'm gonna give myself a pat on the back. *pat myself on back* ahhhh, that felt good.


marauderishly yours,



madmarauder

Thanks to Tuitus, I saw a very interesting editorial on sortings and ideologies. Here's the link, if you're interested. (Hopefully, it's having trouble loading. . .and, yes, I realize I'm not writing this real-time ) AHA!

Anyways, it gave a good argument for (out of many possible sorting strategies the hat uses) the use of seeing the ideologies that the person has in order to place them in a house. For example; we'll look at Regulus and Sirius, as that's who we seem to be discussing lately. Growing up in the Black family, they were no doubt inundated with the "Pureblood" mentality. That was the ideology presented to the family by the family; and it seems only natural for the children to follow suit, and so they would also hold the "pureblood is better" ideology. So, Regulus, growing up in this house, listening to his parents talk about the "Most noble and honorable house of Black" would understandable accept that ideology, making it his own. . .making him a Slytherin. Now, Sirius-even though he grew up in the same house and listened to the same pure-blood mania, for some reason rejected that notion; and rejected the ideology. He was able to form his own ideology, thus placing him in a different house.

And, because I think it's interesting, it kind of explains why Wormtail ended up in Gryffindor. If the hat is basing his assessment of placement on the ideologies a student has; Wormtail could very well have held those of Gryffindor: that bravery and valor were greater than the rest. It doesn't, certainly, mean that he possesses any of those qualities; but that's his frame of belief.

And it works for Crabbe and Goyle, as well. Whether we see any sort of cunning and ambition from them, if they hold the ideologies of Slytherin; then they belong in the house that caters to that ideology.

I also like this explanation because it works "at the present." It doesn't take into account the actions or possible actions a student takes or will take. It doesn't concern itself with change. Perhaps someone who started out in Gryffindor would have cause to change. A movement from one ideology to the next; the sorting hat was still correct at the time of sorting.

Hopefully that makes a bit of sense. To be fair, I haven't done an in depth reading of the editorial, only a skimming. I plan to go back to it in the next couple of days to see if my ideas allign with the author's findings. Very interesting stuff, though, so I thought I'd share it.

Marauder, I like the idea of "At the present moment." I have lone held that the Sorting hat does not tell the future, but only reads what is in the mind of the student at that time. I did not think the reason for the sorting was because of ideology. It seems linked that a person's ideology and actions should align. As you pointed out, a person may not have the faculties to carry out their ideology.

Wow, you're right marauder. That is most I think I have ever seen you write! Kudos to you!!! Here's what's funny, I actually do act like a Slytherin. I'm very ambitious and don't do a whole lot without figuring out what's in it for me. Even when I do something out of the goodness of my heart (and yes I have one, and no it's not blackened) I have ulterior motives.

First off, let me welcome The Eye of the Snake to Slytherin! Unfortunately I have sparred with your brother (Burial) but we seem to have some to mutual respect. I will not hold that against you but hope you can hold your own. He is after all on foreign soil and we serpents will have your back.

Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb and see about what you guys had to say. (corijp I have no idea if you are a guy or girl so I use "guys" generically)

How do we know Crabbe and Goyle aspire to be Death Eaters like their fathers? I don't think I have read either one of them speak a complete sentence. I completely agree with corijp where they are motivated by food. If the kitchen were to be under seige I can see them hustling, but only then. I don't recall this being discussed but then again I haven't been in the forum for very long (however we act like old chums, huh?).

So correct me if I'm wrong madmarauder but you think Regulus backed out because he was scared of how much power Voldemort was able to portray, not because he had an attack of the conscience? Hmm...sounds familar huh? Sounds like Peter Pettigrew. He was good at snuggling with the "biggest bully in the schoolyard" I believe Sirius said.

Peter didn't search for Voldemort once he lost his power and only went back to him when he realized he had no where else to go. Perhaps Regulus was of the same frame of mind but slightly altered.

Perhaps Madmarauder is correct and let's say say Regulus only left Voldemort because he feared the immortality. Then I would have to say he's dead and here's why. He left Voldemort and had no where else to go. Once again I'll ask, does he go to his fellow Deather Eaters? Um, no. Does he go to his mother? Definitely not. Does he go to his brother? Again, definitely not. So, he destroys whatever horcruxes he can, does as much damage to Voldemort's immortality and goes down fighting.

We really don't know how he died and I think that would answer quite a few questions. Sirius seems to be under the impression that Regulus wasn't important enough to be killed by Voldemort himself but by one of his minions. Again, do we take Sirius' word for his opinion of his brother, or do we expand our minds a bit?

I personally think Regulus was killed by fellow Death Eaters. If Regulus was caught by Voldemort destroying the horcruxes Voldemort would have obliterated him and then Regulus' mother would have known deeply about her son's betrayal and thus passed through the grape vine to Sirius. Sirius would have known that Regulus was up to something big, and thus told Harry when they were discussing the "magical" family tapestry (and yes I think it's magical and no I don't have proof. It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it).

However, the news of Regulus' death was nothing special and thus I think he was only killed for deserting Voldemort; nothing more nothing less.

Oh, quick news flash for you Burial: You're in Gryffindor and I'm in Slytherin. Me agreeing with you is like Malfoy agreeing with Potter. *rolling my eyes* duh! We'll have to have that discussion comparing Regulus and Sirius with Boromir and Faramir later.

Anyway, any thoughts anyone?

That is what I said Charmer. You saying that you agree with me had the feel of Malfoy agreeing with Harry.

If Regulus was killed by Death Eaters and he is RAB, then it is logical that Voldemort did not know. As you said, Voldemort would have obliterated him otherwise. Even if he did, Mrs. Black would not have found out why. Voldemort would not tell everyone that the reason was because Regulus went after his horcruxes. He would want to keep them secret.

We don't know if Crabbe and Goyle desire to be Death Eaters, but I think they expect to be someday.

When I say that Mrs. Black would have known, I didn't mean Voldemort would go to her and tell her, "Mrs. Black I had to wipe your youngest son off the planet because he was trying to destroy my immortality". I just meant that his death would have carried a more ominous feel to it. The Death Eaters would have noticed there was something different about the way he died and well, word spreads. I see Sirius then saying, "And there's my little brother; I don't know how he died but I do know he must have done something to try to redeem himself because Voldemort himself blasted him to Kingdom Come." or something like that. Does that make better sense?

That does make sense, but I think the more likely reaction would be, "Was he really killed by Voldemort, or his Death Eaters?" If it became known that Regulus was killed by Voldemort, I think many people would be surprised that he was that important, or they would wonder what he did to make Voldemort that angry. I don't think people would be quick to think of an act of redemption. Given what little we know about Regulus, I think people would think of him acting cowardly instead making a noble, selfless act.

Hmmm...I do believe you've rendered me speechless. I can think of no good comeback for that.

So perhaps I'll ask another question and see where that goes; do you feel you were sorted into the correct house? This is mostly for Slytherins (so we stay on the Slytherin theme) but other's are welcome to chime in.

Hello fellow Slytherins and welcome to the new members.

As I told you, I have nothing against the other Houses! I feel myself as a mix between Slytherin and Ravenclaw- a Slythenclaw... and I like Hufflepuffs too (I know a couple of them here who are extraordinaire people).
But, I am very proud to be a Slytherin. I feel I belong to this House. Because I'm self centered, although sometimes help people (and save kittens..hehehehe), and I always pursue what is good for me first of all. And, my thirst for knowledge. I think that Slytherins feel attracted to Dark Arts not because they are evil people, but because it's knowledge, a higher knowledge. Magic per se isn't White, Red, Black. Magic is neutral. It's how you use it, they're the intentions that make your magical actions, not magic itself , good or evil. We have discussed Dark Arts before in the thread, so take a look!

Litte OT: Tonks is only 13 years younger than Lupin, not 20...I have made a research but no references to Tonks' House have been made during interviews.



Unluckily, we don't have many canon informations about Severus' past life to determine a resemblance among the two characters, related for examples to their mothers.



I think that there are several things that conjure in sorting a person in a House or another. Ideology is a very good reason for sorting. Crabbe and Goyle are obeying to it, it's very clear, also because they don't have enough personality to choose their own path..sorry, but when I see people walking always in pairs, I start to think they need a support because they can't make it on their own. I say this with the most loving thoughts on Earth. I kinda like them.
The intuition that things can change in one's opinion is brilliant; but, I don't think that the sorting makes mistakes. Once a Slytherin, always a Slytherin, I'd say, in the most positive meaning of the sentence.
Me too, anyway, will read carefully the essay Passerby proposed, and maybe discuss it in the next days.

Witchmom )O(

I'll drink to that! But not really.


Hey, being off topic for a teensy second here. I believ that as long as you have a good contribution and don't mention your house to often, anyone can join, but yes, Slytherins should be a vast majority. No offense.

witchmom, that was a very profound post there. Kudo to you!. But yes, Crabbe and Goyle are following the idealogy of being a Slytherin. That may be why they were sorted there in the first place. As foe Regulus, he got in there probably out of two things; his pure blood mania, and the fact that his mother would be severely disapointed, something I doube he wanted. Only J.K knows for sure, though, right?



marauderishly yours,

madmarauder

I As you read through that article, you'll notice that it supplies how the house forms the ideology of the person, in a sense. I would propose that the ideology the person holds at that point in time is reflected in the house they are sorted into. That being said, the sorting hat definately doesn't make mistakes. Certainly, it sees into your heart of hearts to find out what you really believe and what really makes your mind tick. So, it is absolutely correct in the type of person you are. The hat, however, cannot see into the future of that person's conduct and reactions to other stimulus. Would the hat have placed Pettigrew in Slytherin if it had known he would betray the Potter's so that he could gain favor in Voldemort's eyes? Or does Pettigrew still have the ideologies of the Gryffindor. Do actions have to match ideologies? I don't think that they always do. I know the qualities I value in myself and in who I want to be, but I don't always exhibit these qualities. Just life, you know?

MOD NOTE:

This is absolutely incorrect. ANYONE at ANYTIME from ANY HOUSE can and should participate in any house thread they have a positive contribution to. The house threads DO NOT act as the house common rooms from the book - house exclusive. The house threads exist to discuss attributes and characters, and anything really, that has to do with the house they are made for. This house thread, therefore, is to discuss the Slytherin house by ANY VTM MEMBER. It hasn't happened in a while, so I am confident in the hospitality of my fellow Slytherins, but ANYONE who goes into another house to cause trouble will receive an official warning from a moderator. Also, anyone who bashes a member of another house who has a contribution to the house thread will also receive an official mod warning.

Passerby, I'm sorry. I sometimes think of the house thread as the common rooms in the books. I didn't mean to offend anyone at all. Please don't take offense at my comment.


Hm, actually, CAN the house see into the future? I don't mean every tiny little detail, but a general synopsis. It might help it with some decisions, but others are probably much more obvious where they woudl belong, like Crabbe and Goyle. Makes sense?


marauderishly yours,


madmarauder

Mua ha ha! I am here to cause trouble. Sorry, Passerby, I couldn't resist.



If I have learned anything from Dumbledore, it is that predicting the future is impossible. Any small detail has the potential to change the future drastically. If the future is so certain that any wizard can create an object to fortell it (we know Gryffindor created the hat), then I would conclude that Voldemort would have done created one for himself. Moreover, for me, it would imply that Dumbledore was wrong about his knowledge of magic. I cannot think of this as true.

No I don't think that the sorting hat can see into the future. It knows at the sorting ceremony which house it wants to place which student in. It knows what the students desires are at that time. If you remember in the SS that the hat was going to intially place Harry into Slytherin, but Harry kept saying under his breath "Not Slytherin, Not Slytherin", so after that the hat placed him into Gryffindor. It knew what Harry's hearts desires were so therefore even though he may have shown qualities most closely resembling Slytherin's, he was sorted into Gryffindor because of his bravery, his resepect for others and his love for others.
As far as Crabbe and Goyle go, again because their fathers were Death Eaters and we can assume that they come from pure blood families which Slytherins do, they were sorted there because in the long run their life ambitions are to follow into their fathers' footsteps, even if they may not become Death Eaters. Because of family history they are expected to walk this path, thats why they are in Slytherin. No, they may not have all of the qualities that most Slytherins do, remember they are not the brightest bulbs on the tree, but they obviously have some qualities that are required to be sorted into that house. But again I think it all has to do w/ the following of the fathers' footsteps.

I am not trying to promote a fanfic, but I recall that this very subject was discussed in one. (PM me if you wish to know which one.) Anyhow, Harry and Draco have a moment where Draco relates what it is like being in a pureblood, Slytherin family. The expectation that you will "follow in your father's footsteps" is enormous. It is not really a choice, since you will be killed if you refuse. It is a powerful scene that really made me think about the pressures faced by Slytherins like Draco, Crabe, Goyle and Nott.

You know, I don't think that most people think of that. I think the assumption is that these boys want to be like their fathers. Because the books are based on the point of view of Harry the way they actually are is going to be a bit distorted. Harry has already decided from the very first moment he steps foot at Hogwarts that he doesn't like the Slytherin House; he thinks they are all evil. Even before his first meal! 'not Slytherin; not Slytherin'.

I completely understand why Harry would think that, but within time you would think he would learn to change that opinion, or at least be open minded about things.

However as much as I feel for the Death Eater's boys, I also feel that they have been away from their parents for about 9 months of the year; surely they have seen other ways that are more...productive for lack of a better term and that they have a choice to make and that choice will dictate how they will be for the rest of their lives.

It's like Dumbledore said; Soon we must all chose between what is right and what is easy.

Given time, you would hope that Harry can accept Slytherins. Sadly, the feud between those houses is deep. Given another time, they could be friends. But the strife between the houses only pushes them further apart.

Harry starts his first year not liking Slytherin. By the time he is in fifth year, he hates it. Well, he hates most of its members. As it said in HBP, Gryffindors and Slytherins loathe each other on principle.

Ok maybe Crabbe and Goyle will not follow in the footsteps of their fathers, but becaue of the fact that they are in Slytherin, people would expect them to be. Maybe they will realize that being Death Eaters is not the way they want to go, just like Draco. We pretty much can assume by the events in Book 6 that Draco has been marked as a Death eater because of the task he was asked to perform. But will he follow that line? We may not know until Book 7 what the ultimate choice that Draco, like Crabbe and Goyle decide to make. I'm almost hoping Draco does not chose this path *sigh*

I do not think Crabbe and Goyle will become Death Eaters. They are not yet. Given their reactions on the train, I would guess that they plan on returning to Hogwarts for their 7th year. They do not appear to be particularly good wizards, so I don't think LV would accept them until they were older. By that time, he will be dead.